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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#145626: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:13:50 AM

You have to make an Effort post

Explain who he is. What he does. Why he's particularly bad by the stories standards. And why he lacks any redeeming qualities.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145627: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:14:35 AM

I'm not sure if All For One counts due to his care of Tomura. And you need to make an EP for it tbh.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145628: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:16:39 AM

Pretty sure All for one cares about his apprentice Tomura. Last time I checked. So that's a no.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145629: Jan 24th 2019 at 1:58:46 AM

I was unsure about Khashoggi from the beginning.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#145630: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:15:46 AM

I'm honestly in the fence with Gideon, since I can see why but I never took the comic too seriously. That said... Gideon does kill Scott, but the aftermath was played for comedy with "Drinks are on me!".

I'll give Gideon [tup], because I can see the argument given even when I have some doubts.

Also I want to mention something. I'm half-way through Ar Tonelico 3 and Raphael seems to be a shoe-in so far. That said, I'm going to finish off his role before making an EP. If he makes the cut, EXA_PICO would have a grand total of 7 candidates, so would it get it's own page? To be fair, the only entree in the YMMV page of EXA_PICO os the Complete Monster trope.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#145631: Jan 24th 2019 at 3:40:46 AM

All for One is pretty far from being a Complete Monster, he has legitimate redeeming qualities such as his apparently genuine affection for Shigaraki.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145632: Jan 24th 2019 at 5:07:06 AM

Yeah. All for One doesn’t keep. Even setting aside Tomura, he genuinely cared for other members or his team. He flat out says he holds it against all Might for defeating his comrades with absolutely no reason to fake that.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 24th 2019 at 6:35:15 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145633: Jan 24th 2019 at 5:45:45 AM

How about this quote from Atrocius of Green Lantern: The Animated Series (I miss that show. It's was Too Good to Last)

"It was I who conquered your world, who set your warlords against each other, to create destruction, and chaos, and hate! It was I who saw your potential and recruited you, and when I saw you needed only a nudge to become a truly hateful creature, then I sealed your fate. It was I who slaughtered your precious Illana."
Atrocius to Razer, Green Lantern: The Animated Series

Edited by miraculous on Jan 24th 2019 at 5:46:44 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
color2wheel Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
#145635: Jan 24th 2019 at 6:11:53 AM

[up][up]I loved it, too sad

The Anti-Monitor gave me life.

EDIT: [tup] to the quote.

Edited by color2wheel on Jan 24th 2019 at 6:12:31 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145636: Jan 24th 2019 at 6:33:57 AM

The quote works. New EP for today.

What's the work?

The Passage is a 1979 film directed by J. Lee Thompson. Set during WW 2, a Basque farmer played by Anthony Quinn assists the French resistance in rescuing a scientist from behind Nazi lines to neutral Spain. Thing is? The Nazis don't take it lying down...and one particular member of the SS is on the case. Let's talk, played by Malcolm McDowell having the time of his life...Captain von Berkow.

Who is captain von Berkow?

A devoted Nazi (so devoted he wears a Nazi jockstrap, I'm serious)...von Berkow is from a noble family who wished he'd become a colonel or a general in the Wehrmacht...but von Berkow's calling? He was drawn by Nazi extremist ideology and joined the SS to cleanse the 'vermin' as he sees it. In charge of investigations and interrogations, von Berkow is a vicious sadist...when he discovers an informant, he attempts to bribe the man, but when he realizes the guy is still lying? von Berkow tortures a loved one before him and then tortures the hell out of him, beating and cutting him, then cooking a goulash, pouring it on him when it's hot and then chopping his fingers off to add to it.

Von Berkow then comes across a town the heroes are smuggling their charge through and knows something is up. HE proceeds to interrogate the townspeople, and abducts one of them, who's disguised as a girl, sexually assaults them and leaves them to be killed by his men (the Basque saves them)...when von Berkow learns they're gone, he suspects the local gypsy townspeople of helping and has the Gypsy leader (played by Christopher Lee) taken before the town, where he threatens to torture him. The Gypsy leader expresses no fear and stares von Berkow down, even when von Berkow has his men pour gasoline on him (Christopher Lee plays no cowards). When the Gypsy leaders son breaks down and gives von Berkow the information, von Berkow says he'll honor his word and the leader can go....to hell, before throwing a match to incinerate him. Deciding 'no witnesses,' he has the town massacred and gunned down in one hell of a nasty massacre.

Pursuing the Basque and his charges, he becomes more unhinged as they go, even murdering his own Vichy French officer due to thinking the man is holding out on him, to the disgust of the Wehrmacht officer with them who thinks von Berkow is a psycho. In the final confrontation, von Berkow is seemingly killed by the Basque in an avalanche but survives to ambush them one last time. The Basque gives him a Breaking Speech on how pathetic he is, causing von Berkow to have a psychotic breakdown, imagine himself shooting everyone else, before he shoots himself...the former is a hallucination. The latter isn't. Sic transit von Berkow.

Heinousness?

Only major villain and sticks out. Sexual assault, torture, mass murder, devoted Nazi, etc. It says a lot that the other Nazi officer around in the Wehrmacht is revolted by him and von Berkow thinks the guy's a wimp in turn.

Mitigating Qualities?

The film doesn't always take itself seriously (He wears a Nazi jockstrap, honest!) But, uh...his crimes are very serious, despite how much fun McDowell is having...he hams it up more than he did in Clockwork Orange. The tortures, the murders, etc? Treated fully seriously. He is a devoted believer in Nazi ideology, but he clearly dreams of supplanting Hitler as the Fuhrer himself one day and his belief in it is a very, very bad thing. HE's a sadistic creep and bully who glories in power over others, like most Nazi baddies. Also, while he does kill himself at the end, von Berkow's tenuous sanity frays as he fails more and more through the form to the end when he just collapses into sheer madness and shoots himself in a fit of insanity. Nothing redeeming.

Conclusion?

Easy yes I'd say

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145638: Jan 24th 2019 at 6:41:23 AM

[tup]Von Berkew

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145639: Jan 24th 2019 at 6:44:57 AM

"imagine himself shooting everyone else, before he shoots himself...the former is a hallucination. The latter isn't."

Lame just bugs me

Yes to him though. I think the third CM for him, after Kesslee and the first voice of Stahl.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#145640: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:02:13 AM

[tup] Berkew.

I feel like the thing with Gideon is that people are changing votes because he's slightly less bad than initially thought. Like, I'm pretty sure we've put up bad guys on a similar tier to him for less than mass mental assault and keeping people frozen for him to keep. It would be like if we suggested a serial killer who had raped and murdered dozens of people but then we find out he only murdered them with no rape. Like, would people change their vote then? And I get it's a bit different going from "I will conquer the world" to "I made billions", but if we just got that first would there be this pushback?

Anyway...

Some already know this but I'm gonna be leaving the thread for a while. Kingdom Hearts III launches in Japan tomorrow and I don't trust the internet and I certainly don't trust randoms coming into this thread breaking our 2 week rule because they're impatient and can't read. If that does happen, please do not respond. Do not vote, do not rebuke. Simply holler for a mod to delete the post and deal with the transgressor. Myself and Scraggle will deal with Kingdom Hearts when the time comes - assuming I can beat the game and post game stuff in time. Anyway, take care everyone.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145641: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:18:38 AM

If he DID indeed have mass Mind Rape—I need confirmation—I'll still say yes to GGG.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#145642: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:23:13 AM

[tup]Berkow.

Why so serious?
color2wheel Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#145644: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:28:00 AM

[tup]Berkow. Mc Dowell was also the voice of Rupert Pelham from Wet, and he was Dexter Miles in The Barber (2002), so Berk here is his fifth CM.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 24th 2019 at 7:28:38 AM

It's Spooky Month!
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145646: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:40:10 AM

I thought I was missing some; also, Wet needs to come to PC (along with Conan).

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#145647: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:47:45 AM

[tup] Berkow

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#145649: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:54:00 AM

So I recall last night seeing a preview for the obscure 1998 thriller Firestormnote  and I wondered if the villain had ever been discussed. I checked and yeah, he was approved.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 24th 2019 at 7:54:15 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145650: Jan 24th 2019 at 7:56:50 AM

And we needed to know this...why? He was approved, written up and he's up. Future, you've been asked again and again on the random stream of consciousness.

And please don't bring Speed 2 up anymore. You made the EP, it was your responsibility to give us all available info. If you didn't give us enough to approve, end of story. We are well and truly sick of hearing about Speed 2 and Geiger. Stop trying to update and amend and so forth until he counts. He's a random villain from a stupid action film and the list is not any worse off for not having him.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 24th 2019 at 8:03:33 AM


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