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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145176: Jan 21st 2019 at 2:07:54 AM

[tup] Ahuizoti. [tdown] Princess Shroob.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 21st 2019 at 2:08:13 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145177: Jan 21st 2019 at 4:42:52 AM

[tup]Ahuizotl.

Expanding on what G-Editor said, here are 2 great examples:

  • Ego: Loved Meredith...but killed her—and not just quickly, but with cancer (why not quickly I don't know)—so he wouldn't be prevented from The Expansion/
  • Torquemada: Seemed to love his wife...but had her committed to an insane asylum so she wouldn't interfere with his plans.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145178: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:06:48 AM

This conversation would be more appropriate if it was Valentine's Day.

Help me!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145179: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:07:34 AM

[tup]Ahuiz[tdown]Shroob (The third time a Shroob has been downvoted here. Weirdly enough).

[up]Why......would it be?

Edited by miraculous on Jan 21st 2019 at 7:13:08 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#145180: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:12:10 AM

[tup] Ahuizoti, [tdown] Madam Shroob

About the discussion of love one validation, I would add that if it clearly shows the candidate stopped caring about the love one or still did horrible things to them despite the feeling of love it wouldn't mitigate him.

Ego is the best example of this, but if I should pick up from candidates of my own I would say Lucius (Before Lucius 3).

Lucius did love his mother and showed regret killing her, but he still did it with full intent and continued his murder spree despite that so while regretted doesn't remove the fact he did in his own volition. He's no longer a candidate with the latest development.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145181: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:22:22 AM

It's about loved ones....oh wait. This isn't about romance.

Help me!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#145182: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:33:29 AM

I have what I think is a better image for Mr. Blonde from Reservoir Dogs

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 21st 2019 at 10:37:41 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#145183: Jan 21st 2019 at 7:54:34 AM

[up] I can not tell at all what he's doing. He might be using a napkin to wipe some food off for all we know.

As per the new medication information, I'm gonna change my vote from positive to Abstain on Edmund Lowry Jr.

Honestly, that seems way more mitigating than a shaky relationship with his mum.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#145184: Jan 21st 2019 at 8:15:10 AM

Just arrived from a little trip to a neighboring city, you guys certainly had fun.

[tup] No Name

[tup] La

[tup] Broni

[tup] Surtur

[tup] Sinestro

[tup] Lex

[tup] Victor

[tdown] Puppet Master

[tup] Petunia

[tup] Typho

[tdown] Lucas

[tup] Nadia

[tup] Zahhak

[tup] Ahuizotl

[tdown] Shroob

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145185: Jan 21st 2019 at 8:23:55 AM

Welcome back Crow!

As for the image... Me no like it.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#145186: Jan 21st 2019 at 8:27:26 AM

[tup] Ahuizotl [tdown] Shroob

  • The House That Jack Built: Jack is a sadistic Serial Killer who views killing as an art form and wants fame. His murders spanning over 12 years, Jack murders everyone from annoying strangers and police officers to even his girlfriend and best friend in increasingly brutal ways. Jack even kills children, gunning down two young boys in front of their mother before executing the woman herself. Racking up a bodycount of well over 60, Jack tries to use a World War II-grade bullet to kill 6 men at once, and, when lead down into Hell to suffer for his crimes, Jack refuses to accept his punishment and remorselessly attempts an escape.

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Jan 21st 2019 at 8:28:46 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#145187: Jan 21st 2019 at 8:52:43 AM

Maybe This image is better.

His face might not be seen, but nor is that of christian szell in his image.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 21st 2019 at 11:55:21 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145188: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:13:05 AM

What was the final vote on Jack? I remember there was a little debate over that single tear scene.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145189: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:14:44 AM

For the most part, he was deemed a keeper.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145190: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:25:37 AM

Final count for Jack was 14[tup] and 2[tdown]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CyberXIII Since: Apr, 2009
#145191: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:26:59 AM

Chuck Wilson was the leader of the Futurians and the mastermind of, well, the entire movie’s plot. Paranoid about Japan becoming an economic superpower, Wilson hatches a mad plan to ensure this never happens. First, he takes a time machine along with his allies Glenchiko, Emi Kano, and a small army of androids. Then, he takes three genetically engineered creatures called Dorats with him to the past, in 1991. Convincing Japan’s government to aid him with lies about Godzilla, he has his lackeys travel to the past, and attempt to remove Godzilla from history. In short, they fail, but more on that in a moment. On his orders, Emi leaves the three Dorats behind, where they are hit by a nuclear explosion, absorbing the radiation and becoming forcibly fused together into the Heisei King Ghidorah. In the present day, Wilson takes control of King Ghidorah and directs it like a living WMD. It destroys an entire city and kills hundreds of people under his orders, before flying to Hokkaido next, killing everything in their path. Wilson finds Japan’s attempts at fighting back hilarious. Eventually, Japan has no choice but to bring Godzilla back, making Wilson indirectly responsible for all the evil Godzilla does in future movies. Wilson shows no remorse for all the lives he’s taken. He just gloats; either Ghidorah will destroy Japan, or Godzilla will do it for him.

Now that I'm back, here's an old writeup I never got around to posting.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145192: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:29:51 AM

What was the tally on Chuck? I remember that Ambar (prior to him getting banned) downvoted him because of him being an American stereotype.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145194: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:37:51 AM

Godzilla vs Mecha King Ghidorah.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ProgenyExMachina : The Musical from a place you won't leave Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
: The Musical
#145195: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:42:09 AM

For whoever runs into this post (Joko OP here) - I think I'm going to back out of this entirely, since this process seems to be a lot more complicated than it looks, and I'm getting increasingly self-conscious every time I fail to grasp one of these things. Specific format posts, writing these entries solo, doing that without leaving anything out, doing that without making the entry very long and unwieldy, and the forum itself being formatted in a way I can't help but find barely useable (why not something more like discussion pages, where same topics are kept together and it's easy to know when someone replies?)...it's definitely not worth it. Sticking to normal edits from now on.

(I hope this comes off as the embarrassed retreat it's meant to be rather than some kind of butthurt flouncing, but whatever happens happens.)

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#145196: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:46:08 AM

Maybe a revisit on Wilson is in order ? I'll admit to not watching the movie in over a decade but I don't see he's any more of a steryoptype than other Western Terrorists we've had on here.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145197: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:50:00 AM

I don't have an issue with that myself, but I do remember that it did make part of the argument.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#145198: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:58:24 AM

If I recall correctly, Ambar said something about propaganda. But I didn't really see how. But if we're going by this logic, wouln't a terrorist archetype villain be seen as "Anti X-Y and Z" propaganda ? For crying out loud we have at least two CMs that people compare to Trump.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#145199: Jan 21st 2019 at 9:59:20 AM

[up] I'm assuming this is why most people were fine with up-voting Wilson.

Is there a link to Wilson's EP?

Also I'm finished with Season 1 of that show I was talking about the other day. Currently working on Season 2, although I may post an EP later today since the guy I plan on EPing has died. Apparently.

Edited by Tyk5919 on Jan 21st 2019 at 1:00:10 PM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
CyberXIII Since: Apr, 2009
#145200: Jan 21st 2019 at 10:04:32 AM

Oh, yeah, the movie was Godzilla vs King Ghidorah, the 1990s movie.

It was ages ago, but he had a bunch of upvotes and one downvote. The consensus was that he was a bit of a stereotype, but had enough personality to count. On top of that he fits the heinous standard rule since he was far and away the worst of the human villains in the Heisei Godzilla movies.


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