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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145051: Jan 20th 2019 at 6:59:23 AM

@ACW Oh and P.S. in the Sinestro writeup. It's "infiltrates" not "infiltratea" but it's okay, everyone makes mistakes tongue

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145052: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:02:08 AM

@acw: In the season 11 finale, he tries to shoot and kill Mulder without remorse after he rejected his offer. The dude really doesn't care about his son as more than just a tool.

He's a unique CM in that he gets what appears to be redeeming qualities only for them to get blown to kingdom come later. Bait the Dog at its finest

Edited by miraculous on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:04:43 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Thetropemaster101 Since: May, 2018
#145054: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:07:28 AM

I believe that Ross/Red Hulk from The Avengers: EMH qualifies as a complete monster due to the heinous crimes he committed throughout his appearances on the show. Unlike his comic book counterpart, he has no redeeming qualities.

Also, since the EMH version of Loki is considered a complete monster, does this mean he underwent Adaptational Villainy (because his comic book counterpart surprisingly does not count as one)? Also, does anyone believe that the EMH Malekith The Accursed qualifies as a complete monster as well?

Edited by Thetropemaster101 on Jan 20th 2019 at 7:07:43 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145055: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:07:31 AM

Whoops, thanks Elfen [lol] Fixed now.

Mir: Ah, so like Ego. Alright, I'll work on his later today. Got a good pothole for his name?

101: Effortposts please. Also, even if Ross has no redeeming qualities, there's still the heinous standard.

Edited by ACW on Jan 20th 2019 at 10:08:09 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145056: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:13:08 AM

Uh I'd go with The Chessmaster. It fits him pretty well.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#145057: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:24:34 AM

@tropermaster: Duley noted but I think I gave all my arguments for him back when he was EP'd. If you got something new to pitch in, fire away.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145058: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:49:09 AM

And here's CSM:

  • The Cigarette Smoking Man (CSM), real name Carl Gerhard Busch, is the Arch-Enemy of FBI Agents Fox Mulder and Dana Scully and the Overarching Villain of the series. Unlike the other, more well-intentioned members of the Government Conspiracy he is part of, the CSM is nothing but a cold-hearted manipulator selling out humanity for his own protection and empowerment. Directly behind the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr., the CSM happily takes on any task to violently dismantle any threat to his power-hungry organization. He allows Scully to be abducted and tortuously experimented on, resulting in her being afflicted with cancer and rendered infertile, putting hundreds of thousands through similar horrors. Revealed to be the father of Mulder, the CSM makes multiple attempts on the latter's life, including trying to burn him alive and later puts him through further horrific experiments, and transforms his ex-wife and son's mother into a monstrous alien-human hybrid. With every alleged moment of humanity or interest in redemption proven to be truly hollow and self-serving, the Cigarette Smoking Man shows, time and again, just how heartless a man can be, even in a world of extraterrestrial threats.

TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#145059: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:54:53 AM

Found this on the YMMV page for a film called Enemy Mine:

  • Complete Monster: All of the strip miners are nasty by default, but leader Stubbs stands out in particular for how much he openly enjoys beating, torturing and killing enslaved dracs.

(Annoyed grunt)
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145060: Jan 20th 2019 at 7:57:41 AM

We'd better PM whoever added it and ask for more detail.

Help me!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145061: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:00:17 AM

If the guy doesn't respond and anyone doesn't know about the work, Can I take a stab on it (If it's available on my country ofc)

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145062: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:01:49 AM

Mind if I? I’ve been meaning to rewatch enemy mine

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145063: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:03:02 AM

The...sigh...revised entries:

  • Weight of the World
    • Cinder Fall is one of Salem's henchmen. She attacked Amber (Vale) and took part of her Aura, leaving her comatose but aware and unable to interact with the waking world. She successfully causes Grimm to invade Vale during the Vytal Festival by orchestrating the Accidental Murder of Penny Polendina at the hands of Pyrrha Nikos. Possessing part of Vale's Aura gives Cinder an empathic connection with the Kingdom of Vale's people, which means she feels echoes of their emotions. Usually this connection causes the personification distress like a part of themselves are being hurt, but Cinder is the opposite. She relishes in the pain and terror she causes during the fall of Beacon. Upon realizing America has part of Vale's Aura, she hunts him down with the intent of torturing him to death for daring to "steal" part of the power that's "owed to her". She is defeated by Canada but remains unrepentant for everything she's done. Her attempt to stab him in the back fails and he kills her.
    • Atlas (Ciel Soleil) is the personification of the Kingdom of Atlas. After Vale was attacked by Cinder and left comatose, Atlas sought out a personification to put her Aura into in order to prevent the rest from going to Cinder. She found America and Canada and kidnapped them, imprisoning them in a lab. She ordered her men to experiment on the twins to test which one was more "worthy" of getting a Remnant personification's Aura. One of those experiments involved America being vivisected to test his Healing Factor. After the fall of Beacon, Atlas becomes a Military State. She opens the Transformation Institute, a facility that brainwashes her people, and throws everyone in there from Faunus to political "dissenters" to people who were out one minute after curfew began. America confronts her in the Institute and she declares he belongs to her, he should be grateful for everything she put him through, and she "gave him a soul." When he refuses to surrender to her, she threatens to break every bone in his body and "order her men to keep him company". She attacks Ruby and Weiss during their fight, forcing America to protect them since they are frozen in time and have no idea what is going on. She pins America and demands he submit to her and admit she is better than him. He shakes his head, so Atlas repeatedly stabs him through the stomach and tries to kill Ruby (who is still unaware). Canada finds America unconscious and goes after Atlas. She immediately pins America's injuries on Ironwood. She selfishly unlocks the Relic of Creation and teams up with Emerald and Watts in order to kill Canada. Everything Atlas does is out of self-interest. Even her "heroic" and "for the good of Remnant" acts are done to boost her own ego. For example, she seeks out a replacement for Vale so she could say she was the one who "created" the new Vale. She wants Remnant (and Earth) groveling at her feet because she is the "superior" nation. Part of the reason she targeted America in the first place is because he is a Superpower and she wanted him broken at her feet, "proving" she is better than him. Atlas has no empathy for anyone, and cares for no one except herself. She grabs America and Canada so the other could be the spare if the first one died. She does not view Faunus or the people and personifications of Earth as people. She sees them as soulless husks as sub-human and disposable as Grimm. In fact, her own people (the people responsible for her existence) are disposable to her. If they do not match her view of "perfection" they need to be eradicated. She remorselessly kidnaps, tortures, brainwashes, and murders. She has no redeeming qualities.
    • The ex-soldier is a Torture Technician who was hired by Atlas in case they needed to "encourage" America and Canada to work with them. After Mantle's Aura was forced into Canada in what was essentially "Soul Rape", the ex-soldier was one of the two to drag him back to his cell. He strikes Canada for laughing hysterically from the pain and would have continued to beat him if another guard had not stopped him. He mockingly mentions America screamed himself hoarse shouting threats and pleas at the scientists to leave his twin alone and tells Canada he can't wait to hear America scream when it's his turn. The ex-soldier is fired when America and Canada escape, and is hired by Doctor Polendina to be one of America's guards when he is recaptured with the intent of resurrecting Penny. When America does not do what Polendina wants, the soldier tortures him by carving the word "Sacrifice" into his back until it scars and then keeps coming back to do it over and over again. He repeats this process every day, multiple times a day, for at least a month. The soldier pretends he is angry about being fired but in reality he doesn't care. He encourages fellow guards to beat up their helpless prisoner. While torturing America, he runs his hands over his prisoner's skin and presses his body against his just to terrify him. When America is freed, the ex-soldier corners him and pins him down while telling America he will never escape him and what he did to him will haunt America forever. Depending on how the reader interprets the scene, the soldier may have intended to sexually assault America if he was not fought off. The ex-soldier tortures one person, but he made it his purpose to make that person's life hell. He is given a position of power over someone and takes full advantage of it to torment America over a period of at least two months. He does not do it out of revenge or because he believes he is right: he does it because it's fun. He also manipulates other guards into doing heinous things they would not consider normally. His only "goal" for torturing America is to leave a permanent mark on him so America will remember him forever. America still has PTSD and scars from the soldier. The ex-soldier only shows up in a few chapters but he is one of the cruelest characters in the series.

I'm still not getting what makes Cinder SO bad, and the others are WAY, WAY too long.

Edited by ACW on Jan 20th 2019 at 11:03:09 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145064: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:04:51 AM

When there's a overly long entry... In your neighborhood... Who you gonna call... @43110 tongue

Anyways, yeah... The writeup for both Ex-Soldier and Atlas are a bit too long for my taste

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 20th 2019 at 11:05:17 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#145065: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:09:00 AM

I've deleted the entry and PMed the poster. It was added in 2017, so not really that long ago compared to some.

(Annoyed grunt)
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#145066: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:14:20 AM

@ACW: You want me to take a stab at shortening all of that?

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145068: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:19:55 AM

@Tyk You could also read the fanfiction to expand Cinder's entry a little :D

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 20th 2019 at 11:20:11 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145069: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:22:26 AM

Come on, no one should be subjected to that tongue.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145070: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:25:37 AM

I found this in the YMMV section of The Park:

  • Complete Monster: The Bogeyman, an immortal entity that lives in the park, and feeds off of children before killing them. He psychologically tortures Lorraine by exposing her to the park's negative atmosphere, manipulating her feelings for Callum, taunting her with the reminder of just how poorly she is at being a mother, and as if to add insult to injury, he mind-controls her into stabbing Callum to death.

This doesn't appear to have been approved by the thread, but it reads like it was.

Help me!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145071: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:26:40 AM

Errr, KINDA was. I proposed the Bogeyman from the Hidden World, and the Park is part of that.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145073: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:28:14 AM

[up][up][up]It was sorta approved.

His full entry is on The Secret World

Edit: [nja]

Edited by miraculous on Jan 20th 2019 at 8:28:37 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#145074: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:31:43 AM

@Elfen: No. Currently on my own quest of binging through some obscure media that was created in Italy. And it's concept is actually very cool.

The execution is ass though.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145075: Jan 20th 2019 at 8:33:01 AM

What's the work in question?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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