During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'm honestly still inclined to say yes. Torture that vicious every day for that long kind of puts the ex-soldier in what looks like a unique place for a guy who has jack compared to the other two keepers... plus, if these are really the only three who stand out as CM-worthy in a fic with multi-hundred-thousand word count? I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
This is, of course, assuming no other minor villain gets to that kind of brutality with that kind of focus, redeeming qualities or no.
So I'm a forgetful idiot who forgot the other major appearance of the ex-soldier.
After Mantle's Aura was forced into Canada in what was essentially "Soul Rape", the ex-soldier was one of the two to drag him back to his cell. He strikes Canada for laughing hysterically from the pain and would have continued to beat him if another guard had not stopped him. He dismisses Canada's pain from the procedure and mockingly mentions America screamed himself hoarse shouting threats and pleas at the scientists to leave his twin alone. He grins as he tells Canada he can't wait to hear America scream when it's his turn.
I'll add this to the explanation as well.
Edited by EmeraldSky on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:16:49 AM
To Scraggle: Oh yes, the ex-soldier was brutal and no other minor villain was as cruel as him. It's not even a contest. He only showed up for maybe two or three chapters but he left scars (both physical and mental) on America that have yet to heal. Every time someone stands behind America he still panics and freezes because of what the ex-soldier did to him, and when antagonistic characters like Ironwood and Russia see the scars he left behind, they're horrified. For context, the former is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who will brainwash and kidnap for the good of his Kingdom while the latter is a Psychopathic Manchild who gleefully hurts America because he believes America is faking his PTSD and wants to teach him a "lesson".
Edited by EmeraldSky on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:33:54 AM
Okay, that's about 15
to 4
... ish. I think the ex-soldier can be considered a Complete Monster. I'll edit his entry appropriately.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback and help!
Question about Darkman: is there any reason Louis Strack doesn’t count?
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsI found this in The Many Deaths Of Jason Todd:
- Moral Event Horizon: The Joker was way past this in canon, but his brutal murder of Jason Todd truly cements him as a Complete Monster.
I found this in The Nightmare Never Ends:
- Complete Monster: Olivier, a demonic Man of Wealth and Taste—heavily implied to be the demon Moloch—and leader of a Satanic cult, has been involved in many wars over the centuries. He's introduced interrupting a Nazi dinner party to inform a man that he hasn't met his quota with Hitler for three weeks before gunning down the women onstage. He kills the alleged clairvoyant who showed Claire Hansen the vision of him in Nazi Germany. Weiss, a survivor of The Holocaust who lost his family to Olivier, attempts to hunt him down when he finds out that he sees him on TV, only for Olivier to brutally murder him. Olivier then rapes a girl, Annie, in his club and kills her boyfriend when he goes looking for him. He then sets his sights on the Claire's husband, Nobel Prize-winning atheist author, James Hansen, who just released a book entitled God Is Dead. He forces James into a meeting and attempts to recruit him to his cult, and melts his face when he refuses. When Lieutenant Sterne investigates him, Olivier kills his partner by filling his car with smoke and causing it to blow up when Sterne gets near. Then he goes after Claire, who's been tasked to kill him and remove his heart. She—along with Annie—captures him and tries to cut his heart out on an operating table, but Claire discovers that she killed Annie in his place, and Olivier murders her.
The reason the trope who posted it gave was that it had been approved by the thread, but when I went to the Related page for the film, I saw no Monster subpages listed.
Help me!

If I'm counting right, there are currently 8 votes
for the ex-soldier and 5 votes saying
or leaning towards
. I'll wait on him but Atlas and Cinder are unanimous yeses so I'll go edit their entries.
Could someone explain to me their thoughts why the ex-soldier might not be a Complete Monster? I noticed a couple leaning towards
so its kinda up in the air right now. I can add more context if it's needed but I don't know what I need to add to convince you one way or the other.