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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

EmeraldSky (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#145001: Jan 19th 2019 at 5:56:38 PM

If I'm counting right, there are currently 8 votes [tup] for the ex-soldier and 5 votes saying [tdown] or leaning towards [tdown]. I'll wait on him but Atlas and Cinder are unanimous yeses so I'll go edit their entries.

Could someone explain to me their thoughts why the ex-soldier might not be a Complete Monster? I noticed a couple leaning towards [tdown] so its kinda up in the air right now. I can add more context if it's needed but I don't know what I need to add to convince you one way or the other.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145002: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:03:03 PM

Ok, from everybody is saying, I'm sticking with [tup] for Cinder and Atlas, but switching to abstain for Ex Soldier.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:03:23 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#145003: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:05:34 PM

I'm honestly still inclined to say yes. Torture that vicious every day for that long kind of puts the ex-soldier in what looks like a unique place for a guy who has jack compared to the other two keepers... plus, if these are really the only three who stand out as CM-worthy in a fic with multi-hundred-thousand word count? I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This is, of course, assuming no other minor villain gets to that kind of brutality with that kind of focus, redeeming qualities or no.

EmeraldSky (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#145004: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:10:05 PM

So I'm a forgetful idiot who forgot the other major appearance of the ex-soldier.

After Mantle's Aura was forced into Canada in what was essentially "Soul Rape", the ex-soldier was one of the two to drag him back to his cell. He strikes Canada for laughing hysterically from the pain and would have continued to beat him if another guard had not stopped him. He dismisses Canada's pain from the procedure and mockingly mentions America screamed himself hoarse shouting threats and pleas at the scientists to leave his twin alone. He grins as he tells Canada he can't wait to hear America scream when it's his turn.

I'll add this to the explanation as well.

Edited by EmeraldSky on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:16:49 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145005: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:10:47 PM

You've cemented my [tup] to the ex-soldier.

Help me!
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#145006: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:21:25 PM

[tup] To Atlas, Cinder, and the ex-soldier

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
EmeraldSky (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#145007: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:23:50 PM

To Scraggle: Oh yes, the ex-soldier was brutal and no other minor villain was as cruel as him. It's not even a contest. He only showed up for maybe two or three chapters but he left scars (both physical and mental) on America that have yet to heal. Every time someone stands behind America he still panics and freezes because of what the ex-soldier did to him, and when antagonistic characters like Ironwood and Russia see the scars he left behind, they're horrified. For context, the former is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who will brainwash and kidnap for the good of his Kingdom while the latter is a Psychopathic Manchild who gleefully hurts America because he believes America is faking his PTSD and wants to teach him a "lesson".

Edited by EmeraldSky on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:33:54 AM

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#145008: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:26:55 PM

Then I'll switch my vote on the soldier. A hesitant [tup], but still.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#145009: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:44:12 PM

Given the clarifications, [tup] ex-soldier

EmeraldSky (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#145010: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:44:30 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. I edited Cinder and Atlas's entries and hid the ex-soldier's for now until his placement is determined.

It's about 13 [tup] to 5 [tdown]... ish. (How do people keep track? [lol]) Should I edit the ex-soldier's entry or remove it?

Edited by EmeraldSky on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:44:45 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145011: Jan 19th 2019 at 6:51:33 PM

I think he's worth a writeup!

Help me!
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145013: Jan 19th 2019 at 7:02:41 PM

Okay, after hearing that extra information, I'm switching to an [tup] for Ex Soldier.

EmeraldSky (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#145014: Jan 19th 2019 at 7:10:12 PM

Okay, that's about 15 [tup] to 4 [tdown]... ish. I think the ex-soldier can be considered a Complete Monster. I'll edit his entry appropriately.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and help!

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#145015: Jan 19th 2019 at 7:18:21 PM

For future reference, 5 more upvotes than downvotes is the threshold we use for a consensus. The ex-soldier definitely exceeds that.

EmeraldSky (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#145016: Jan 19th 2019 at 7:19:54 PM

To DemonDuckofDoom: Good to know. Thanks.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#145017: Jan 19th 2019 at 7:37:32 PM

Question about Darkman: is there any reason Louis Strack doesn’t count?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#145018: Jan 19th 2019 at 8:34:17 PM

If I had to guess a reason, it's because the sequel makes Durant nastier in every way possible.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145019: Jan 19th 2019 at 8:44:38 PM

I found this in The Many Deaths Of Jason Todd:

Help me!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#145020: Jan 19th 2019 at 8:48:46 PM

Strike it. PM. Same thing with all future misuses.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 19th 2019 at 9:49:14 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145021: Jan 19th 2019 at 9:15:36 PM

Then again, this entry is the only one in the fic's YMMV tab.

Help me!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145023: Jan 19th 2019 at 9:40:51 PM

I found this in The Nightmare Never Ends:

  • Complete Monster: Olivier, a demonic Man of Wealth and Taste—heavily implied to be the demon Moloch—and leader of a Satanic cult, has been involved in many wars over the centuries. He's introduced interrupting a Nazi dinner party to inform a man that he hasn't met his quota with Hitler for three weeks before gunning down the women onstage. He kills the alleged clairvoyant who showed Claire Hansen the vision of him in Nazi Germany. Weiss, a survivor of The Holocaust who lost his family to Olivier, attempts to hunt him down when he finds out that he sees him on TV, only for Olivier to brutally murder him. Olivier then rapes a girl, Annie, in his club and kills her boyfriend when he goes looking for him. He then sets his sights on the Claire's husband, Nobel Prize-winning atheist author, James Hansen, who just released a book entitled God Is Dead. He forces James into a meeting and attempts to recruit him to his cult, and melts his face when he refuses. When Lieutenant Sterne investigates him, Olivier kills his partner by filling his car with smoke and causing it to blow up when Sterne gets near. Then he goes after Claire, who's been tasked to kill him and remove his heart. She—along with Annie—captures him and tries to cut his heart out on an operating table, but Claire discovers that she killed Annie in his place, and Olivier murders her.

The reason the trope who posted it gave was that it had been approved by the thread, but when I went to the Related page for the film, I saw no Monster subpages listed.

Help me!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145024: Jan 19th 2019 at 9:42:25 PM

sure to all of the candidates I missed

@Scraggle Have you read the Lex-Joker Comic book yet?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#145025: Jan 19th 2019 at 9:46:12 PM

Go to Edit Requests to ask for its inclusion. Either that, or put it in the Sandbox.

Edited by AustinDR on Jan 19th 2019 at 9:51:40 AM


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