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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#144627: Jan 17th 2019 at 12:31:35 PM

Oh,yeah, can't wait for them to butcher Frollo's song to make him sing "Heck fire."

[tup] Pinhead and Coyle.

Edited by AustinDR on Jan 17th 2019 at 12:32:25 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#144628: Jan 17th 2019 at 12:34:48 PM

I think Jeremy Irons could do a good job as Frollo. That's my idea anyway.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 17th 2019 at 12:35:44 PM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#144629: Jan 17th 2019 at 12:40:29 PM

I could see that; shame they replaced him as Scar.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#144630: Jan 17th 2019 at 12:42:44 PM

I mean it's not like there were dozens of live action adaptations of Hunchback before and the Disney one is supposedly a remake of a live action adaptation from the 30's. Y'know kinda like Beauty and the Beast.

But so long as they keep sentient instruments or a twist of Quasimodo being handsome at bay, then it probably won't be half bad. Yes. Such an adaptation exists.

Edited by Beast on Jan 17th 2019 at 2:43:30 PM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#144632: Jan 17th 2019 at 12:58:50 PM

Sentient instruments doesn't seem too bad considering the Disney animated film has those sentient gargoyles (I know there's a theory that they're just figments of Quasimodo's imagination, but they outright moved on their own and interacted with birds so I doubt that's the case)

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 17th 2019 at 4:26:45 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#144633: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:00:28 PM

Yes to Coyote. Good job guys!

Yes to Pinhead as well.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#144634: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:24:02 PM

[tup] Coyote.

@Awesome Kid: You know not of which speak.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#144635: Jan 17th 2019 at 1:27:28 PM

Alright, so it's about time I start the discussion for the 2019 Doctor Who New Year's Day Special.

The main antagonist in the New Year's special is a Dalek. What does the Dalek do? I'll summarize: It takes control of a woman named Lin and forces her to murder several innocent people before using her to build a new metal casing for itself. Afterwards, the Dalek lets go of Lin and kills an entire army. Towards the end of the special, the Dalek possesses Aaron (the father of Ryan, one of the Doctor's companions) and attempts to get him killed. Overall, the Dalek's plan was to take over the entire world.

But of course, the Dalek doesn't qualify, and here's why: most of the Dalek's actions are pretty generic for a Doctor Who villain, and to back that up, most Daleks are expected to do the kind of stuff the Dalek from this special does. Aside from being able to possess people, there's nothing about this creature that really stands out. Oh, and did I mention that the creature most likely has moral agency issues considering its species? So in the end, no one qualifies in this special. Tzim-Sha from season 11 was bad enough.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#144637: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:01:22 PM

Hmmm somone launched Would Harm a Senior. That ome could be useful.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 17th 2019 at 2:02:28 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#144638: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:02:23 PM

sure to pinhead and coyte

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#144639: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:33:02 PM

If documentaries count, I'm checking out the PBS program The Dictator's Playbook to see which of the six dictators who are featured in the series (Kim Il-Sung, Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini, Manuel Noriega, Francisco Franco, and Idi Amin) would be worthy of the title Complete Monster based on their portrayals in the miniseries, with the caveat that they would be Live-Action TV examples if any of them count.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#144640: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:34:24 PM

We are very likely not gonna do documentaries. That's a can of worms we don't need. What's to stop someone from proposing R. Kelly?

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 17th 2019 at 2:34:54 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#144642: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:39:23 PM

[tup] Pinhead and Coyte

Let's... not do documentaries. Docudramas are fine, documentaries are not.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jan 17th 2019 at 2:39:38 AM

ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#144643: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:39:56 PM

@Lightysnake

  1. A time limit, similar to Never Live It Down's real-life examples, to ensure the magnitude of the subject's atrocities stand the test of time.
  2. If they're not dead yet, then it'd be in poor taste.
  3. We don't need anything that'd come across as sensationalist, even if true. All we want are the facts, ma'am. PBS has been very good about avoiding sensationalism, so historical documentaries from them are fine by me. Current events programs such as PBS NewsHour, on the other hand, should be strictly off limits, as they're current and not historical. Frontline documentary discussion would also be considered similarly questionable.

Edited by ryanasaurus0077 on Jan 17th 2019 at 5:47:17 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#144644: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:42:21 PM

[up] Or we could just not do documentaries. Let's go with that option.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#144645: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:43:33 PM

Yeah. There's a reason why real-life examples are prohibited.

Help me!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#144646: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:45:44 PM

Never mind my own reservations about bringing up fictionalized examples of historical people, but documentaries alone breaks the No Real Life Examples rule in my book.

Even Docudrama's are pushing it. (I assume that refers to those kind of real life crime shows you see on Investigation Discovery).

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#144647: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:46:27 PM

Yeah, let's just not do real people (though fictionalized depictions can count as always.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#144648: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:47:04 PM

Absolute no to real life examples period.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#144649: Jan 17th 2019 at 2:47:50 PM

Yeah let's not do documentaries. That's just asking for trouble.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance

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