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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#144451: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:15:53 PM

Lemme take a stab at it, cause that's an eyesore.

  • Complete Monster: Princess Alesia, is the one responsible for summoning Ueki Kaito to her world. In the prologue, After having him save their world, Alesia reveals her true colors, spending a year hunting him down like an animal for her own sick pleasure before succeeding at stabbing him to death with her comrades. Upon Kaito's return, he learns Alesia sacrificed 200 beastmen slaves to summon him, while also condemning 5 of his relatives to horrific deaths. Sickeningly racist, Alesia orders bloody purges of anything with less than 100 percent human blood, even having a village butchered so the souls can be offered to a powerful demon for her benefit. Alesia promotes brutal slavery throughout the land, and when she confronts Kaito, gleefully states she'd happily have him impregnate some beast-man sex-slaves and kill the newborn children right before him.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#144452: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:17:59 PM

Holy hell, that's MUCH, MUCH better.

Devoted, I'll add it to the Drafts. Does Big Bad work for him in the anime?

Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#144453: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:22:39 PM

Okay, so I guess I do need editing privileges to do that. To answer your question, no, he's a major "behind-the-scenes" sort of antagonist, but he's not the main source of the conflict and the one driving the plot. That would be Heldalf, better known as the Lord of Calamity.

And in case anyone starts wondering, no, the Lord of Calamity is not a candidate for this trope since despite claiming he's trying to fill and corrupt the world with Malevolence, he's actually much more of a vessel that the Malevolence itself is using to spread around the world rather than him using it. Plus, as Sorey notes, he actually sets himself up in an isolated location in the North to try to weaken the spread of Malevolence (and that's without going into his backstory where he suffered Disproportionate Retribution for a betrayal that turned him into the abomination he is in the present).

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Jan 16th 2019 at 5:08:40 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#144454: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:24:35 PM

Hmm, since he's a Lord, I'll just go with the ever-useful Aristocrats Are Evil around his name then.

Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#144455: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:36:56 PM

That sounds like a good idea. One more thing; remember that when it goes on the YMMV page for Tales of Zestiria, it'll need to be preceded by something like "in the anime adaptation" or "in Tales of Zestiria the X" just so that no one will think the entry is about his game counterpart. Other than that, if the length is acceptable and you just plan to add links to a couple of appropriate potholes, then that's great! I'll be super happy if no shortening is required!

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Jan 16th 2019 at 3:38:35 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#144456: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:40:04 PM

Just chiming in on ACW's comment about the MB entry: if it's Kaito then it was actually approved by the thread.

[down] Hold up, that was the original one Joseph put in the drafts but I since edited and truncated it. The one up now was not cleared to be put up.

Edited by 43110 on Jan 16th 2019 at 3:58:54 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#144457: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:41:56 PM

Huh, I stand corrected then. It seemed well-written, but isn't at MagnificentBastard.Anime And Manga yet.

[up][up] Yeah, I'll fit it somehow. Oh, and don't be surprised when it's removed from the Drafts. That just means it's in my Microsoft Word file of edited entries for this week's batch.

Edited by ACW on Jan 16th 2019 at 3:46:29 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#144458: Jan 16th 2019 at 12:52:25 PM

Alright So Red King of Planet Hulk was a bit of a mess. So I asked 43110 to Grimm it and

  • Old: Angmo-Asan is the Red King. When the Hulk first challenged him, he first casually kills off the rest of a gladiatorial bout's survivors (save for Miek); and, after Hulk gains the upper hand, he sends his guards on him and shoots him in the back. Later, we see him firsthand casually ordering the death of all people who say something against his high tributes and dismissing the complaints of his peasants, because he doesn't see them as anything more than animals. During the second Arena Fight of Hulk and his Warbound, he decides to screw the rules and tries to nuke them (together with the whole audience), which only fails because Hulk contains the blast. He even attempts to make them kill one of their Warbound-members via Mind Rape. After the heroes confront him with his crimes, he doesn't even care one bit, rolls his eyes and smugly proclaims: "Yes. I killed them. As is my Right. As is my Duty. As is my Pleasure." And when he is finally defeated, he attempts to destroy the whole planet in response. The only way to make him remotely good was shown later when they made him into a cyborg and programmed him into behaving. Plus, Caeira's flashback of him as a child. In the comic, he saves her life but immediately enslaves her. In the animated film, she offers her loyalty willingly but the kid Red King turns out to have been still just as villainous when he reveals he ordered the Spike attack on Caiera's village specifically so he could capture her.

  • New: The "Red King", real name Angmo-Asan, seemingly saved Caeira's life in a flashback from the slaughter of her village before enslaving her in the comic and revealing himself to be the architect of the attack in the first place to take her as a slave in the cartoon. In his gladiatorial match against the Hulk, the Red King begins it by slaughtering a group of the arena's survivors. Ordering the deaths of any who question the tributes he receives, the Red King dismisses the complaints of peasants, whom he compares to animals. In his rematch against the Hulk, the Red King tries to destroy the arena with a nuke, uncaring for the audience within the blast radius. When confronted about his atrocities, the Red King smugly proclaims killing to be his right, duty and pleasure. Finally defeated, the Red King tries to destroy the planet he is on as a final act of spite.

Thoughts ?

Edited by miraculous on Jan 16th 2019 at 12:52:47 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#144461: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:00:49 PM

[up][up][up] funny since Red King is also the name of one half of the South Park Walls fanfic duo I just EP’d

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 15th 2019 at 11:01:56 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#144462: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:01:34 PM

Just as a fun little statistic, Bartlow was my sixth proposal so far, and the third to be approved after Bob Rickman and Toyman from Smallville, which brings my current record to 3 out of 6 proposed characters approved. Considering I'm still pretty new at trying this, I'd say that's something to be relatively proud of (my only real gripe being my disappointment over Windom Earle not being approved, but I suppose many tropers have someone they must agree to disagree on). I don't know when I'll attempt another one though, since I'm pretty sure no one else from Tales of Zestiria the X counts, and pretty much all of the upcoming movies I'm interested in seeing that have a realistic chance of having any especially evil characters have already been reserved.

But who knows? Maybe I'll eventually find another potential candidate that has been overlooked in some other show that I watch. Regardless, I should at least be here ready to vote on anyone from those movies I plan to see that has a shot at qualifying when the discussion dates come around.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:10:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#144463: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:11:36 PM

[up][up]Theres also one in Changes

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#144464: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:21:01 PM

I have to abstain on Lowry too. Too ambiguous of a mitigating factor, so I'll err on the side of caution.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#144465: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:26:28 PM

I don’t know if this do any good but I guess I can switch to a tentative [tup] for Lowry

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#144466: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:33:19 PM

[tup] to Snow White, Jack and Rex.

As I didn't vote at the time, I'll give a [tup] to Edmund Lowry JR.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#144467: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:35:16 PM

Alright. It's half past 11 where I'm at and I'm trying to learn to go to bed early again to prepare for my return to university.

So I'll Talley the votes after I wake up in a few hours if no one minds ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#144469: Jan 16th 2019 at 1:47:43 PM

Alright... Catching up. Yea on Rex (Tyk... How did u find this stuff tongue). And as for Jack, I might going to abstain at its finest tbh

If he got approved, second CM for Matt Dillon? We have Colriss as the first one

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 16th 2019 at 4:48:35 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#144470: Jan 16th 2019 at 2:14:51 PM

I didn't vote on Lowry last time, so yeah.. [tup] to him.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#144471: Jan 16th 2019 at 2:19:43 PM

As for Lowry, tentative yea I suppose.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#144472: Jan 16th 2019 at 3:01:12 PM

Late [tup] to Snow. Neil Gaiman wrote that WTF?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#144473: Jan 16th 2019 at 3:20:23 PM

[up]You seem surprised. The fact that something like that was written by Gaiman is probably the LEAST surprising thing about it.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#144474: Jan 16th 2019 at 3:26:13 PM

i mean obviously Gaiman writes bizarre stuff but he's not usually so... visceral as this.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#144475: Jan 16th 2019 at 3:35:23 PM

If he ends up going up, where would Lowry go on the tree?

Things are really about to get Fun around here

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