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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#143151: Jan 7th 2019 at 5:40:11 PM

[tup] to Carnage. Are there any versions of that guy who do not qualify?

Help me!
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#143152: Jan 7th 2019 at 5:43:24 PM

[tup] To carnage

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#143153: Jan 7th 2019 at 5:53:47 PM

[up][up] The game version based on The Amazing Spider-Man 2.

Actually there's quite a bit of him that don't count.

Edited by Beast on Jan 7th 2019 at 7:55:51 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#143154: Jan 7th 2019 at 5:56:17 PM

Why doesn't he qualify?

Help me!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#143155: Jan 7th 2019 at 5:57:55 PM

He genuinely wanted the symbiotes as a surrogate family. I EP'd him a while ago.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#143156: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:00:32 PM

[tup] Tiberius, Silas, Emmett, Norman Osborn, and Carnage.

Why ya'll move so fast?

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#143157: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:03:58 PM

I'll honestly have to say [tdown] on Tiberius.

Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Jan 7th 2019 at 3:04:08 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#143158: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:24:24 PM

I'm curious...have there ever been a case where both the Carnage Symbiote and the man counted? Like with Carlton Drake and Riot?

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 7th 2019 at 6:25:07 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#143159: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:32:37 PM

I think Drake and Riot is the case.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#143160: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:37:43 PM

I see...I do find that interesting how the film actually Shows the Symbiotes personality seperate from the user...usually we just get hints of how they effect the user. (fun Fact I expected Drake to count before seeing it just on research. Riot was more surprising) I do wonder what the sequel will do with carnage that in mind.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#143161: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:38:44 PM

[tup] Carnage

And I've read the sequel for The American Way and nobody keeps. Most antagonist are "sympathetic" (good luck making a Peruvian being sympathetic for a drug addict communist terrorist and friends) and while the Southerners are just flat characters spending all their time being racist, they really don't do much stuff.

I may get a MB EP.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 7th 2019 at 9:53:41 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#143162: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:41:02 PM

[up][up] Unlikely. I'm pretty sure "Carnage" itself is influenced by Cletus Kassidy due to being a baby when they bonded. I think. I haven't been reading up on my Spiderman comics.

Edited by Beast on Jan 7th 2019 at 8:41:24 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#143163: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:47:21 PM

[tup] Everybody from Napoleon to here, except Wilkins. I've swen it, he loves his son.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#143164: Jan 7th 2019 at 6:54:11 PM

If that's true...Should we add Cassidy being The Corrupter to the baby Symbiote on the comic versions Write Up?

Things are really about to get Fun around here
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#143165: Jan 7th 2019 at 7:35:41 PM

[tup] for every asshole currently listed here!

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#143166: Jan 7th 2019 at 7:59:53 PM

[tup] Tiberius, Silas, Emmett, Norman Osborn, and Carnage.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#143167: Jan 7th 2019 at 10:25:57 PM

Right. So it seems like everyone from Grandville is a go. Here's all the write-ups.

  • Grandville: Detective-Inspector Archie LeBrock and his partner Roderick Ratzi have faced several deplorable criminals throughout their careers. These are the worst of them.
    • Emperor Napoleon XII is the leader of The Knights of the Lion. Longing to restore the society of France, Napoleon and the Knights all conspired to turn the country against Britain. In order to achieve his goal, he and the Knights bombed the Robida Tower and left evidence behind to make it appear as if Britain was responsible; anyone indirectly involved in the attack was murdered shortly afterwards. Napoleon used the Knights' influence to gain more power, spreading anti-British propaganda, declaring war on the Communards in French Indo-China, and allowing the Chief of Police create the Imperial Secret Police Death Squad. After a British Secret Service agent discovers Napoleon and the Knights plan on launching another attack, he and his lover are both killed, along with any witnesses who were questioned by LeBrock and Ratzi. Once all the witnesses were killed, Napoleon planned on bombing the Paris Opera House in order to start a war with Britain. Despite claiming he wants to help French society, Napoleon was willing to kill thousands of French civilians and start a war with another country, which would've resulted in the deaths of millions.
    • Mon Amour: Edward "Mad Dog" Mastock is a former British anarchist and Sociopathic Soldier. After Mastock was imprisoned for butchering several prostitutes, he escaped from captivity just before his execution, slaughtering several innocents and prison guards in the process. Once out of prison, Mastock returned to Grandville, where he murdered five prostitutes on behalf of his employers to keep them from exposing incriminating evidence against them. When Mastock discovers that his old rival LeBrock has taken a liking to Billie, he kidnaps her, threatening to kill her if LeBrock doesn't meet him with the evidence. Even after LeBrock shows up with the evidence, he tries to kill him and Billie anyway just for fun.
    • Nöel: "Doc" Elvis Yorkshire is a con artist and the one responsible for starting Apollo's cult. After Elvis and Apollo began to con civilians through religious methods, Elvis hypnotized Apollo into creating his own cult and got him addicted to morphine so he would be easier to control. After recruiting hundreds of members, Elvis had Apollo murder all of them in a suicide pact before the police could apprehend them for abduction. Elvis and Apollo's new partner, Nicholas, then tried to sway the public into voting Apollo to be the country's next leader, promising to cull humanity once elected. When his plans fail and he's caught by LeBrock and Chance, Elvis tries to kill them both when they refuse to take the bribe he offers them.
    • Force Majeure: Tiberius Koenig is a ruthless, sociopathic mob boss. Longing to control all the gangs in Paris, Tiberius and his crew forced the other gangs to work for him, killing those who refused to submit to him. After his brother, Gaius, is killed by LeBrock, Tiberius decides to kill him and all of his loved ones simply because it's "a matter of principle." Using his own recruited gangs, Tiberius has a restaurant full of civilians shot to pieces so that the owner, Stanley Cray, would start roaming around the city killing those responsible. As LeBrock chases after Cray and tries to get him arrested, Tiberius has Cray murdered, framing LeBrock in the process. He also attempts to kidnap LeBrock's mother and children with the intent to torture them to death, and successfully kidnaps Billie after his gang kills her police escorts. When Tiberius discovers that Billie is pregnant with LeBrock's child, he brutally beats her to the point where she has a miscarriage. He also murders his other brother, Quintillus, for failing to keep the other Paris gangs united under his rule. After LeBrock rescues the prince and princess of the Kalahari gang from Tiberius, thus ruining the leverage he had over them, he decides to just annihilate the gang altogether. When Tiberius’ gang finally captures LeBrock, he nearly beats him to death for his own enjoyment, and tries to kill him by throwing him into a meat grinder.

You can probably spoiler out Elvis' entire entry on the YMMV page, since it spoils Nöel's biggest twists.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#143168: Jan 8th 2019 at 12:04:55 AM

[tup]Carnage

[tdown]Wilkins. His son being a creepy as well doesnt take away that he still cares about him.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#143169: Jan 8th 2019 at 12:38:24 AM

There are a few, but Carnage is like Ultron or Skull or Apocalypse; or Brainiac or Darkseid (or to a lesser extent Joker) on the DC side: While there may be a random version who doesn't count (MCU!Ultron comes to mind), most versions are likely gonna be a CM.

Yes to this Carnage.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#143170: Jan 8th 2019 at 1:24:48 AM

Alright I’ve got a candidate that might be worth discussing from the episode "Breakdown" from the 13th season of Supernatural. Introducing Terrance Clegg aka The Butterfly.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Terrance Clegg is an FBI agent whose revealed to be the The Butterfly, an infamous abductor whose been kidnaping people and then to record their suffering on his dark web page as he butchers and carves them up alive in front on camera for monsters to gleefully watch before auctioning their body parts and organ online to the monster for them to eat. He been doing this for twelve years racking a body count of possibly hundreds and along the way he recruit a mute Harvester and a vampire Marlon into helping out in his operation.

When Dean and Sam help their friend Donna investigate these crimes in their efforts to find Donna’s niece Wendy. Terrance pretends to help the trio into solving The Butterfly cases but in truth is trying to lure them into a trap, eventually kidnapping Sam Winchester. After capturing Sam he auction him online and after intense bidding his heart has the highest bid so Terrance decides to carve out his heart while Sam is still alive. Thankfully, Dean arrives just in time and kills Terrance putting his horrific operation to an end

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Terrance claims that he’s doing this so he can keep monsters at bay and not attack humans, since their need of food supply for human flesh will be supplied. However he could have just find people already dead and give those body parts to said monsters for free, but instead he kills innocent people in horrific fashions while auctioning their body part for lots of money out of it while taking sadistic joy out of it. That just makes it clear that he just exploiting the monsters need for food just to make lots of money and fuel is own sadistim.

Also, he doesn’t show any care for his accomplices either only using them to help his own operation, showing no sadness if they died.

Heinousness

Yes I know the heinousness in Supernatural is high, but given that Terrance Clegg is just a regular human being only appearing in one episode, he makes a pretty cruel niche with his limited resources. He has kidnapped innocent people and slowly butcher and cuts them up while recording their suffering online before proceeding to giving the dismembered body parts and organs to the monsters for them to eat and having done this for twelve year he racks a body count of dozens, if not hundreds.

While The unnamed Harvester and Marlon help Terrence out, the former doesn’t really have much personality and Marlon was only recently recruited by Terrence not really doing much himself, and its made clear that Terrence is the ringleader of this sadistic operation and everything the two do is on Terrence’s orders.

Final Verdict

I’ll leave that to you guys!

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 7th 2019 at 11:25:02 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#143171: Jan 8th 2019 at 1:28:41 AM

[tup] to Clegg

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#143172: Jan 8th 2019 at 1:53:38 AM

Hmmmmm Abstain on Terrence but leaning yea. Think Lighty can chime in regarding it.

Also, been reading a manga called Plunderer. Might be gonna reserve the anime adaptation at a later future

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#143173: Jan 8th 2019 at 2:04:16 AM

I'm gonna wait for Lighty's vote on Clegg, since he's the Supernatural expert and that show has a stupidly high heinous standard.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#143174: Jan 8th 2019 at 2:37:49 AM

Yeah... me too. Thinking one of the earliest villains is a demon who crashes planes for kicks. tongue

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#143175: Jan 8th 2019 at 4:09:53 AM

Bump. For my ep.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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