During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
11: No he isn't upfront nasty to Billy - beyond getting annoyed with him. Its just the kind of "bonding" they do while being all lovey, it just came off to me as one of those kind of relationships.
I'm also willing to admit hems not one of those guys I was sure counts and only EP'd him to get him out of my way.
Edited by Beast on Jan 7th 2019 at 5:47:19 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."We Allowed William Afton to qualify as there was evidence to suggest he just wanted to make his daughter a Serial Killer like him.
With this candidate it sounds Like there's even more proof for a simmualr result.
This just makes it worse " it's implied that he also murdered his wife to get Billy under his control"
Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 7th 2019 at 3:48:46 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereNo. If you've seen the movie, there's no room for ambiguity about this. It's meant to be a creepy, weird thing, but a sincere creepy, weird thing. Like, the EP is positing a major Alternate Character Interpretation.
Hm...alright. If that's the case switching to a
And 11..That's complicated. If let's say the redeeming quality is left to Alternate Character Interpretation it dosent count as a redeeming quality.
Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 7th 2019 at 3:54:49 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereThere can be some room for Alternate Character Interpretation....but it only goes so far.
11: No. They have to presented in clear cut way. Thing is the reason I considered him I the first place was due to some personal standards of mine. Not everyone on here has the same standards, and not all theses relationships I described are played out in that manner. I honestly didn't think I was applying ACI here, I was just calling it the way I saw it from those standards.
Edited by Beast on Jan 7th 2019 at 5:54:24 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Okay, I reached the end of Queen of Thieves. And sorry to say, neither potential candidate applies.
Jingoli, who now that I think of it has "Jingo" in the name and is rather "jingoistic", was faced as soon as I started the final mission, fought in a single battle, got the same fate he inflicted on Lysander inflicted on HIM, then bowed out with no fanfare. Later we learned he "succumbed to his wounds" (the sisters don't kill but a mysterious person who's been helping them arranged for his death) so no seeing what he's like in potential sequels. In any case some time after that we finally get to fight Raul. It turns out the Arianna with him is the real Arianna, suffering Trauma-Induced Amnesia from seeing the faux-dead bodies of her family (who apparently pulled a mass-Faking the Dead, not that they bothered to make THAT clear at an earlier date) and believing Raul is her fiancé. Raul puts up a a good fight, doesn't win, one "I Know You're in There Somewhere" Fight later, she regains her memories, collapses and a desperate Raul drinks a potion that gets him possessed by an unknown demonic entity. In the end he dies from his wounds. Happy Ever After, blah blah blah.
Both of them have the same ultimate problem. Despite being so prominently featured, they barely show up in the game and have at most a handful of onscreen misdeeds between them. Certainly not enough to justify an effort-post. No other major badguys with anything approaching a personality either. Ah well.
Sorry kids, looks like we won't be getting a new member of the family after all.
In other news The Walking Dead final season has been picked up.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I also love how they are advertising it "The Walking Dead: A aTelltale Game" despite it being put together by a new studio, but y' know names sell.
Didn't Overkill release a Walking Dead game of their own ? Anyone check that out ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I will give a yes to all the candidates I missed. But no to Wilkins.
I am covering the other Spider-Girl candidate and who can be as bad as old Storming Norman? Another familiar face of course....
Who is Carnage? What has he done?
So little background, one day SHIELD was transporting some dangerous cargo and that cargo was about to be hijacked, till Spider-Girl stopped the hijackers, but the cargo itself escaped. What was the cargo, the Carnage symbiote, still alive, having been in a government lab for decades, waiting for the chance to cause havoc again.
Carnage forcibly bonds with May Parker's classmate Moose. Carnage is about to slaughter a group of Midtown High students, but Moose stops him resisting the bonding. Moose goes to a coffee shop to see if May can help him, but Carnage wants to massacre the patrons there, again stopped by Moose. May manages to drive off Carnage, but Carnage goes to Peter Parker's house instead. Carnage takes the infant Ben Parker and tortures Peter. Carnage runs off with Ben. Spider-Girl runs into him near a hospital (Moose has some control over the carnage being and wants to visit his dad who is dying of cancer), Carnage holds Ben hostage and mocks Spider-Girl over her baby brother being his captive. Carnage goes into a hospital room and plays a game with a May, she will have to choose who to save, her baby brother or the hospital staff and throws Ben out of a window. Spider-Girl manages to save everyone, but Carnage reveals his trump card, he has infected Ben with part of the symbiote and turned him into a mini version of himself. Carnage then sicks Ben on Spider-Girl.
Spider-Girl manages to web up Ben, but then Carnage is attacked by a SHIELD team, including a bunch of B-list villains forced to work for the government. Carnage easily defeats him and plans to massacre the team, until Spider-Girl reveals that the Carnage symbiote can cure cancer. Moose and Carnage make an agreement, if Carnage cures his dad, Moose will let Carnage fully bond with him and give him the freedom to go on a killing spree, Carnage even agrees to temporarily stop killing till after the bonding is complete. Carnage goes to the hospital and knocks out the guards, but threatens Moose's girlfriend and sister till Spider-Girl and Peter Parker (with sonic weapons) arrive. Carnage decides his temporary ban on murder does not apply to Ben and orders Ben to gut his father. Peter is, of course, worried about injuring ben and ben is about to kill him, till Spider-Girl uses a sonic weapon to blast the symbiote off of Ben (racking her with guilt and costing Ben his hearing for a time). Carnage is about infected Moose's dad, but Spider-Girl uses the sonic weapon to kill the symbiote, once and for all. Moose is bitter though, his father will die of cancer and there is nothing he can do about it, Moose scorns Spider-Girl after this turn of events. A rather sad ending for a normally family-friendly book.
Is he heinous by the standard of the work?
I think so, Carnage makes several attempts at mass murder, the only reason this did not turn into a bloodbath is that Moose was stopping Carnage from doing so. He also infected a baby with a symbiote and attempted to make him into a killing machine. That is dark for a book that is mostly light-hearted.
Any Freudian Excuse or other mitigating facts?
Yeah right. Carnage's reason for helping Moose are completely selfish and May suspects he is going to turn Moose's dad into another monster like he did with Moose and Ben and Carnage even says he is a liar and does not like to save people. The only reason he was not killing people was due to Moose and sought to change that so he can go on a killing spree. Moose accepting Carnage's help is like making a deal with the devil. He's the same old Carnage, joking and trying to murder people, the more things change the more they stay the same. He does not care about Moose or anyone else.
Symbiotes have moral agency, the Venom symbiote reforms in this book.
Final Verdict?
Carnage Rules! Keep him.
Edited by Overlord on Jan 7th 2019 at 5:20:55 AM
I just remembered Crypt TV had a Christmas special two weeks back.
Short version ? Special was a little much on the comedic side and the villain was a GDV type.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

The film does not frame it as abuse whtsoever. It's twisted as shit, but it's supposed to be.
Hell, the film also features a werewolf who pushes her sister to eat a guy alive...is that 'abusive and twisted' as well despite the clear affection? Wilkins is shown supposedly finding his son annoying, gearing up to stab him....
And then it's revealed he stabs the Jack O'Lantern made from a head, revealing theyr'e a creepy, loving, murderous father-son duo.
This does not count. It just doesn't. There is no way to spin this.