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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#142976: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:06:31 PM

[tup] to Vincent

Things are really about to get Fun around here
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#142977: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:07:50 PM

[tup] Vincent. While I'm seeing little here but (child) rape, his attempts to shoot Dove do push him a bit. The shows don't all take place in the same universe, do they?

Help me!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#142978: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:11:25 PM

[up] ...it's the child rape that pushes him, 11. That's literally his only claim to the trope.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 6th 2019 at 5:11:32 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#142979: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:11:48 PM

@ACW. Even a Nazi can have Evil Is Cool types like Red skull.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142980: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:20:13 PM

And it seems like he did it to MANY.

That is true about Skull.

Speaking of Serial Rapist, I found this on that page:

  • Blue Bloods:
    • "Re-Do" has Dick Reed, a Serial Killer whose M.O. was to tie a woman up to her bed with electrical cords, beat them, torture them, rape them, then finish them off by lighting their bed on fire. He did this to four women, three of whom were killed. He got caught thanks to the adequate description given to the NYPD by Rebecca Watalski, the only surviving victim. He's then released five years later when the DNA evidence that convicted him is ruled inadmissible due to a protocol mistake by an overworked lab tech. At the end of the episode, he tries to do his usual M.O. on Erin, the D.A. who convicted him, but is fatally interrupted by her father Frank.
    • Arc Villain Thomas Wilder kidnapped, beat up, raped, and killed 22 women that we know of, and threatened to do so to Nicky Reagan but only got as far as the kidnapping part.

We already got Reed as a CM. Anyone know about Wilder? That rapsheet's nearly approaching SVU levels.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#142981: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:22:17 PM

I guess [tup] Vincent

...they can choose any other type teacher for once? I wonder how P.E. teachers feel about being cast as Serial Rapist and abusers.

Watch me destroying my country
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#142982: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:42:16 PM

Huh. That is a really weird trend, now that you bring it up.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#142983: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:46:53 PM

There's also Mr. Meaner from Captain Underpants (he was the villain of the 12th and final book). Does anyone think he's worth an EP?

Help me!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#142984: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:52:29 PM

What ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#142985: Jan 6th 2019 at 4:52:56 PM

11, dude....We've talked about this. Unless he's the biggest Knight of Cerebus ever please...

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:54:19 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#142986: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:00:19 PM

Next effortpost, before my next collab with Scraggle...

What's the work?

Rin Chupeco's The Girl From the Well is a duology based on the Stringy-Haired Ghost Girl so popular is horror cinema....except what if that girl's the hero?

Okiku was murdered hundreds of years ago....except she came back. A ruthless, vengeful spirit, Okiku targets murderers, particularly of children. Okiku frees the spirits of others, but her own vengeful path prevents her from moving in to the afterlife. Now, Okiku later meets a boy named Tarquin, or "Tark" who is heavily tattooed thanks to a ritual...now, the villain of the book? Doesn't keep. Her agency is shot to hell and back (she's the manifestation of rage and pain in the form of a black-clad ghost woman)...but a minor villain in the book? Enter the Smiling Man.

Who is the Smiling Man?

Quintilian Saetern, real name Quintilian Densmore of Massachusetts was a wealthy delinquent who had a long record. At age 20, he was charged with trying to rape a little girl and served five years. After changing his name and fleeing, Quintilian learned that dead men tell no tales and began to cover his tracks. Young women and children tend to disappear wherever he travels, with him murdering them....with a nasty as hell MO, too.

Arriving in the town of Applegate, the Smiling Man has been abducting and murdering children for some time while Okiku is dealing with her own victims...seeing him? The spirits of the dead tend to cling to their murderers. He has dozens on him. In Applegate, he quickly spots a little girl and creeps on to her when she's alone, nearly hitting her with chloroform before her mother arrives. Later, though? He centers in on Tark, with his older cousin Callie. Kidnapping them both, Callie awakens tied up as The Smiling Man mocks her, commenting she's 'a little too old' for him, and he likes them young. The 'younger and prettier, the better.' Turns out his MO? Not sexual assault (or not just sexual assault), but he likes ti carve his victims apart slowly. Deciding he'll have fun with Callie, he intends to take his time with her and his toys, starting by sinking a knife into her finger. And then? He'll take Tark with him, use him for sex and then carve him apart as he's done to all the others.

Unfortunately for him...Okiku is there and lets herself be seen, terrifying the killer. the Smiling Man panics and tries to hunt for the new arrival, only to find Okiku under the bed like a scene from a J-horror film. He's yanked down, pulled screaming and fighting under the bed where a very angry ghost is waiting for him.

Exit Mr. Quintilian.

Heinous standard?

Now, Okiku is a murderer, but she only targets killers and is no danger to innocent people. Besides this, we get plenty of her murders and really? Few of them are this bad. Most of her victims have a few deaths. Quintilian has dozens, and he rapes and tortures them. Like, even the Woman in Black isn't this bad. The only one who is? The villain of book 2 who is worth a post, and he's far more powerful, magically speaking, than a one-man show killer.

Mitigating Qualities?

Good god no. Nothing to say here. He likes raping and murdering kids. That's about it.

Conclusion?

An easy yes.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#142987: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:01:00 PM

11? Stop.

Yea to the Smiling Man.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 6th 2019 at 6:01:27 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#142988: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:02:16 PM

11...I genuinely want to know what you're having problems with in regards to getting the baseline heinous standard here.

Anyone mind if I look in on Thomas Wilder?

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 6th 2019 at 5:11:41 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#142989: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:07:51 PM

[tup] to Smiling man.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142991: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:11:17 PM

[tup] Smiling Man. He just from the first book?

This week's batch, in case anyone missed it. It's a big one (That's What She Said).

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#142993: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:16:48 PM

[tup] Quintilian Densmore of Massachusetts.

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#142994: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:21:28 PM

[tup] Alistair (been wondering about that film), Backbeard, Elvis, Vincent (been looking forward to him) and Smiling Man (how are those books? They sound awesome), and anybody else I might be forgetting

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#142998: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:28:03 PM

Yea on the Smiling Man

Also, Lighty, Iron Blooded Orphans apparently got a spinoff or something. Wanna take a dibs on that?

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 6th 2019 at 8:29:07 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#142999: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:32:12 PM

[tup] Smiling Man and weirdly specific-rapey-teacher-number-3.

I suppose it's slightly common - I mean, not that much, but it's a minor trend - because rape is bad and rapey teachers are bad. Why, then, are PE teachers apparently more common? It's probably because of the inherently physical aspect of PE. That and young people are more likely to be see gym teachers as sexual agents than those in other subjects - indeed, I had a PE teacher some girls thought was "fit" - which is slang for bangable. He was a nice guy though and has actually gone on to coach a football team. Real football. Not your American Football swill.

But I dunno if it's common enough to really be seen as needing analysis or anything like that. In fact, other than our CM rapey gym teachers, what examples are there?

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#143000: Jan 6th 2019 at 5:38:42 PM

[tup] Vinent. I swear if we don't get a crisis crossover movie or miniseries with all these DC universes I'm gonna be very dissapointed.

[tup] Quintilian.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

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