During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Alright, since Hammerhead's been ruled a keeper I'll be writing him up soon. And not only that, I'll be submitting the rewrite for Cal Roberts, a writeup for the King from Deltarune, and a rewrite unrelated to all my more recent proposals: Ga'ran from all the way back in 2016. I've been dragging my feet on rewriting her current ugly-ass writeup because it's given me a ridiculous headache trying to list everything and keep it under a word limit, which feels damn near impossible considering all the nasty crimes she's committed and all the context needed to describe it all. But it'll come soon, I promise.
I'll
Dark Elf and the Goblin Lord. I feel like if some of the goblins have been shown to develop a lot more sentience and have been shown to in fact be smart and cunning bastards, then that means they have the ability to choose whether to be evil or not, or to at least be in some gray area between all that.
Having talked this one over extensively with Lighty I’m a yea for the Dark Elf (Always Chaotic Evil seems to only be an Informed Attribute as it’s the only one we meet) and a no for the Goblin Lord (the only evidence we have towards them not always being evil is one line from Goblin Slayer saying you might be able to find a good one, again, an Informed Attribute with no actual evidence backing it... so basically the opposite of why I said yeah to the Elf).
Nashandra and the Goblin Slayer Bad boys
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 1st 2019 at 1:30:00 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
on Goblin Slayer duo, Seath, and Nashandra. Also, how is Seven Deadly Sins unlikely to have a Complete Monster?
Anyway, here's my first EP of the year, and this time, I'm going double!
'''What Are The Works?
No Laughing Matter
and Atomic Betty meets the Joker
are two Fan Works of Atomic Betty. In these fics, Atomic Betty is pitted against two Laughably Evil but highly dangerous individuals, one of whom has appeared on this thread many times before.....
Who Are They? What Have They Done?
No Laughing Matter
opens with Atomic Roger contacting Admiral Degill and telling him about some jewels. All at one, he hears giggling, and when he turns around, he sees a blue-skinned man in a blue suit and a jester hat. Roger tries to introduce himself, but the man claims never to have heard of him and blasts him with gas, causing him to laugh uncontrollably. He then steals all the jewels, grabs a spray can, and goes to the nearest wall.
Meanwhile, Betty is at a Comedy Night club, and goes out in tears after Penelope makes some mean jokes at her expense. She's then contacted by Degill and told to investigate the theft of the jewels. After they go to investigate the broken cases, she and her pals see a message saying, "Put on a happy face." After a talk with Roger, she gets message of another robbery.
At the bank, Betty, Sparky, and X-5 see more broken glass and the same message. They look at a camera, and see footage of the man spraying more people with his laughing gas and stealing more loot. Sparky and X-5 recognize him as a failed comedian named Daniel Callaway who was booed offstage after telling a series of old (and unfunny) jokes. Betty is determined to stop him before he turns more people into giggling idiots.
The trio hides behind a silver diamond in the believe that he'll be unable to resist. They're right, as the man grabs the case and sets it on the floor. But when he tries to pick it up, he finds it's cold. He drops it and it shatters, and when he picks it up, a shard melts in his hand. As he's registering that this is an ice diamond and he's been tricked, Betty and her crew come out of their hiding place and stand right behind him. Betty makes the mistake of calling him Daniel Callaway, and the man reveals his backstory: He was the son of a famous comedian named Jacob Callaway and wanted to follow in his father's footsteps, but was unsuccessful. He decided that he could get money and make people laugh by turning to a life of crime. That's when he declares that he's no longer Daniel Callaway but the Cosmic Jester! When Betty asks him about the smoke, he explains that in addition to being a professional comedian, he also has a PHD in chemistry. Sparky angrily tells him his jokes weren't funny, which turns out to be a mistake, as the Cosmic Jester blasts him with his Giggle Brand X. Betty attacks him, but he kicks her back and sprays her with the formula as well. He tries to do the same to X-5, but the robot is unaffected because he was not programmed with a sense of humor. As the Cosmic Jester leaves, X-5 uses the antidote he made from inhaling the gas to heal Betty and Sparky.
As they go looking for the Cosmic Jester, the trio hears laughter in the sky. They see a blimp and notice that the Jester is planning to drop a huge bomb of laughing gas on the galaxy. Betty flies through an open window and takes the Jester by surprise, but before she can run at him, he puts a finger above a big red button and threatens to drop the bomb if she moves. Betty starts laughing and says that it's funny he's going through all the trouble to make people laugh. In a rage, the Jester runs at her, but she kicks him in the face. They nearly end up crashing, but Betty steers the blimp to safety and sends him to the cops. In his cell, he plots his revenge, and plans to make the galaxy laugh no matter what it takes.
In Atomic Betty meets the Joker
, Betty meets Noah, who has Issue 100 of Batman. While she is reading the comic, Betty gets a message from Degill stating that the Jester has broken out of prison and is attacking huge celebrity parties. Betty decides to take the comic with her because she wants to finish reading it.
X-5 explains that the Jester is planning to rob the party held by Dom Bruise (who I think may be a parody of Dom DeLuise). Betty shows him and Sparky the Batman comic, and then talks about the Joker. Meanwhile, the Jester has reached the party and taken a sip of fruit punch. Under threats by Bruise, he decided to leave, but not before he throws a grenade that sprays everyone in the room with laughing gas. He then steals all their stuff and flees. Just then, Betty and her pals come and lay down the smack upon him. He flees, but as they chase him, Betty's comic falls out of her pocket, but neither she nor her pals notice. When they're unable to find him, the trio decide to help the people at the party. The Jester pops out of a garbage can, but can't find his duffel bag. He doesn't find it at the mansion, but he does find Betty's comic.
After she and her friends dispense the antidote and give back the loot, Betty suddenly realizes her comic is missing. In an abandoned sweet shop, the Jester is reading the comic and laughing, and decides he has much in common with the Joker. While he's wishing for a way to meet him, he turns on the news and hears that the spell book of Crofto was found by Admiral Degill. He picks up the comic and goes out.
After a vain search for the comic, Betty gets a call from Degill about a break-in. Meanwhile, the Jester puts down the comic, turns to a page of the Joker, and recites a chant. A huge blue bolt hits the page. Betty and her crew go to the museum and see a shattered display case. Upon closer investigation, they see a note telling them to come to the cotton candy factory. Realizing at once who sent it, the trio go straight to the factory. Betty finds the Jester, who gives her back the comic, as he has no further use for it, but when she reads it, she discovers all images of the Joker are missing. It's then that the Jester reveals that he brought the Joker to life!
The Joker thanks the Jester for getting him out of the comic. Betty declares that they're both coming with her, and the Joker pretends to comply, but when she goes to handcuff him, he zaps her with a joy buzzer. He then tries to attack X-5 with acid, but X-5's body is acid-proof. In anger, Joker punches him and goes toward Sparky. Betty kicks Joker in the head, and Jester calls a retreat. Before they leave, he throws a grenade, one that does not have laughing gas in it. The trio just manages to jump out of the factory before it explodes.
While they're outside, Sparky reveals that he's terrified of clowns due to a childhood trauma. Suddenly, a note from the evil duo arrives. Betty reads it and realizes that they're in an abandoned chemical plant. The Joker and the Jester are eyeing the test tubes in the plant and come across some labeled HA-HA X. As the Jester is putting some tubes in a briefcase, Betty and her crew jump in. Betty jumps the Jester and demands to know his plan, but he refuses to tell her and begins to fight, allowing X-5 to put a device on his neck. Joker goes to Sparky to induce his fears again, but X-5 distracts him by slamming him in the ribs. But the Jester knocks the heroes out with gas (it doesn't make them laugh), and when they come to, Sparky and X-5 realize that the villains (and Betty) are gone. Sparky blames himself for this, but X-5 tells him not to worry.
Betty awake to find herself shackled to a metal table. The Jester reveals that he and the Joker have been working on a concoction to make the Giggle Brand X more powerful than ever, so that whoever inhales it will not only laugh, but die laughing, and the first place they intend to use it on is Galactic Guardian Headquarters. However, they don't know where it is, and they want Betty to reveal it to them. When she predictably refuses to tell them, Jester reveals the Tickle-O-Tron 3000, and subjects Betty to having her feet tickled, hoping to tickle the truth out of her. Jester states that if she doesn't talk, Betty should at least Go Out with a Smile.
Fortunately for Betty (but unfortunately for the evil pair), the device X-5 put on the back of Jester's neck was a tracking device. X-5 and Sparky manage to locate the factory and face down the villains. Sparky manages to overcome his fears while X-5 destroys the machine and frees Betty. Betty then takes the Jester down and handcuffs him. She then notices that Sparky is having trouble with the Joker, so she pulls the Joker's pants down, sending Sparky into hysterics. Joker goes after him, but trips on his pants and is taken down by Sparky. X-5 then uses a spell to send Joker back into the comic.
None that holds up. The Cosmic Jester turned to crime because he was unable to make people laugh, but as pointed out by Sparky and X-5, the reason why he couldn't make people laugh was because he kept telling old and outdated jokes. The Joker (like most other versions I've seen) has no Freudian Excuse at all.
Heinous Standard?
You may think Atomic Betty is inconducive to a Complete Monster, but these fics (especially the second one) appear to be a crossover with Batman, which (generally) has a much higher heinous standard.
Other Mitigating Factors?
This is where it gets kind of tricky. The Jester gets a moment that might be considered Played for Laughs when Betty calls his goals pathetic, but this just makes him angrier, and he becomes more threatening in the second fic, with no comedy at his expense. Similarly, The Joker find himself in a tight spot when Betty pulls down his pants (not helped when he trips), so he might not qualify. Also, there is Tickle Torture, and I don't know if that's intrinsically too ridiculous to take seriously.
Verdict?
Vote as you see fit.
Help me!Goblin Slayer... eugh, I was awaiting when that would come (I hate this manga). Sure to the Dark Elf, but I am a staunch no to the Goblin Lord, at least at this moment in time. The goblins are the definition of Always Chaotic Evil and there's like no major nudge implying they can be anything other than slavering murder-rape monsters from the day they're born (rape is literally how they reproduce, so obviously there's some inherent or biological factor within them).
If there's some plot twist later down the road that clears up the agency of the goblins? Sure. For now? Absolutely not.
The sad thing is Ravok probably already covered the worst of the misogynist light novel stuff here so far with Rising of the Shield Hero.
And...fine on the Jester if his actual body count is as big as I think it but please truncate these posts to deeds of actual relevance.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 1st 2019 at 4:56:05 AM
@Scraggle I was thinking the same too... Although I was more unsure than anything.
Also, speaking of Tn Y... Been craving on Mob Psycho actually because I'm a fan of One's works ever since One Punch Man is aired. Won't reserve the Second Season just yet because I havent watch the first season.
Anyways, weak yes to Jester.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Man, this thread moves fast if you take a couple of days off. I will just say yes to all the candidates I missed, but no to Goblin Lord. Here is my Firefly write up.
- Batgirl Year One: In this motion comic adaption of the miniseries by Chuck Dixon, Firefly A.K.A Garfield Lynns stands out compared to the more harmless Killer Moth. Starting off as special effects artist working on a Hollywood film, Lynns sets up a stunt so the main lead is badly burned. After being fired by the director, Lynns kills by putting a bomb in his car. Lynns meets Killer Moth in a bar and agrees to be his partner. Killer Moth tries to shake down mobster Tony Bressi at a strip club. Killer Moth orders Firefly to scare Bressi into complying, but Firefly sets the club ablaze, almost killing everyone there. This scares Killer Moth and he wants nothing to do with Firefly after this, but Firefly cows him into staying partners. Later Firefly tries to shakedown Bressi further by setting his business holdings on fire. When Bressi hires 2 goons to dress up Killer Moth and Firefly to frame them for some crimes, Firefly burns the two copycats alive. Eventually, Firefly sets the GCPD HQ on fire, trying to kill every cop in the building.
I think with some B-list comics villains, they are generic enough that a writer with a different take can do anything with them, either making them more monstrous or more sympathetic. With A-list villains like Joker, Magneto, Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, Red Skull, their personalities are iconic and most adaptions will not change them much (except for Doom who always gets screwed on the Silver Screen) and some villains are known for being goofy, it would be weird to turn Stilt-Man into a CM, but with B-listers like Firefly, Toyman, Hammerhead, Mysterio, they treated like serious threats, but are not iconic, so writers have more freedom to play around with them. Purple Man, Mr. Fear and the Marvel version of Scarecrow were nothing characters till writers made them viler.
Speaking of obscure villains has Cornelius Stirk ever been discussed as a possible Batman monster:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Stirk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boZANXeujDU
Also, would there be any Pre-crisis Batman villains who could count? I know you have the goofy Silver age comics, but Batman became dark again around the early 70s, with Joker being a murderer again, Pre Crisis Joker may not be as bad as post Joker, but he would go some capers in the 70s and early 80s were he would try to murder people, like Joker's Five-Way Revenge and the Laughing Fish where Joker would kill people based on whatever crazed notion was in his head that week (Five-Way Revenge had Joker killing members of his old gang because one of them betrayed him and Laughing Fish had him killing copyright officials unless they let him copyright his Joker fish).
Edited by Overlord on Jan 1st 2019 at 5:19:01 AM
One Batman character I've heard talked a lot about how bad he is is Basil Karlo, the original Clayface, whose crimes include serial killing, child slavery, and acting as an abusive Svengali to his various successors (there are a lot of Clayfaces). I don't know nearly enough about him to do the EP myself, though.
To Lighty: ...How bad is that one. PM me if you want.
The Cosmic Jester and the Joker. JJ.
Dark Elf
Goblin Lord
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jan 1st 2019 at 8:13:11 AM
Watch me destroying my country@ Lighty, Fair enough.
What about Pre-crisis Batman villains, like Joker in the 70s? I know Joker was just a goofball in the Silver age, but his Golden Age and 70s era versions were fairly murderous. Maybe not as bad as Post Crisis Joker (I do not remember his schemes involve trying to kill everyone in Gotham), but he would go murder sprees fairly often, trying to kill 5 or 6 people, almost every time he got out. I have not read every 70s era Joker story though, mainly only the ones covered in The greatest Joker stories ever told.
Edited by Overlord on Jan 1st 2019 at 5:17:55 AM

MUCH better. Please add to the Drafts (at the beginning).