During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Eh, fuck it, I'm on a roll today....okay, the anime recently finished but the light novels and manga are well past the deadline, so all I ain't breaking any rules....also, I'm so calling Lord El-Melloi's case files as the latest Type Moon thing.
What's the work?
Goblin Slayer is a recent hit anime. Set in a rule literally governed by the Dungeons and Dragons rules, the world is beset by all sorts of threats. The Demon Lord, a being of unfathomable power and evil, is reviving and only the chosen heroine can defeat him. But...this isn't her story. The story opens with a rookie adventuring party taking on the lowest monsters of the low: goblins. Heading into a goblin next....they proceed to be completely set upon, outmaneuvered and wiped out by the goblins...the last one left, Priestess is rescued at the last moment by a man in dingy armor who uses clever tactics to wipe the goblins out. He is Goblin Slayer, and his role? Exactly What It Says on the Tin...the series concerns Goblin Slayer's single minded quest amidst a greater fantasy backdrop, his growing friends and companions...there are two villains I'll be discussing. The first? Is the Goblin Lord.
Who is the Goblin Lord?
The Goblin Lord is a vicious goblin who was spared once when an adventurer wiped out his nest as a child. The Goblin Lord...proceeded to bash her skull in from behind. Growing into a powerful, savage goblin, he took part in raids, killing, slaughtering and raping the women he caught. Goblins ted to reproduce by kidnapping women of other races and forcing them to bear goblin offspring, rendering them into traumatized shells of themselves. The goblin lord has been doing it a long while, killing countless adventurers and civilians in the process, growing stronger than other goblins until he surpassed even the usual hobgoblins and goblin champions of their race, leading to him becoming a powerful lord who began to marshal goblins under his banner and lead vicious raids, capturing women to use as sex slaves and massacring and torturing all others.
At the end of the first major arc, the Goblin Lord rallies his army to attack the village, detailing his plans to massacre the people, torture and make sport of many others and use the women as breeding slaves. Goblin slayer, realizing this problem is far bigger than what he's used to, manages to convince the other adventurers to help and stymie the goblin tide...we also see one of the Goblin Lord's nastier tactics. The raped, tortured captive women? Are mounted on giant wooden platforms to serve as human shields for archers. Thankfully, Goblin Slayer and team manage to lure the goblins into a sleep spell to save the women and the battle begins in earnest, with adventurers clashing with goblins and annihilating them in a massive battle. Killing one of his own followers for bringing bad news, the Goblin Lord flees, abandoning his army, thinking he'll just use the captive women in his nest to breed a new army and rise stronger than before....when he's confronted by Goblin Slayer who's already saved the women and plans to handle the lord himself.
In a duel, Goblin Slayer's partner Priestess intervenes and uses a spell to trap the Goblin Lord who begs for his life, promising to live in peace...which is a total lie as he gleefully reflects upon the women he's pulled this on in the past, with flashback shots to no less than four of them being tortured/raped by him after, as the Goblin Lord internally gloats that every one of the female fighters who took pity on him died screaming and begging...Priestess however? Doesn't yield, and Goblin Slayer coldly proclaims the Goblin Lord is 'just another filthy Goblin' before burying his sword in the Lord's throat, finishing him off and ending his threat.
Now, the second villain? The Bigger Bad of volume 2 and the Big Bad of volume 3: The Dark Elf.
Who is Dark Elf?
(This series doesn't do names, btw, just titles and so forth, got it? Good). The Dark Elf is a sadistic anarchist of the underground dwelling dark elf people...it's noted that most of them, par for the course with Drow, are evil and so forth, though exceptions exist. Anyways, the dark Elf is also a member of the Evil Sect, who worship the gods of chaos and demon lords. seeking to summon Hecatoncheir, the hundred handed giant. With his schemes witnessed in Volume 2, the Dark Elf leads a force of Goblins in the sewers of the city of Water Town, having young women kidnapped and vivisected as sacrifices so he can eventually lead a new summoning, with intent to unleash the goblins on the citizens of Water Town...the Archbishop of Water Town is the heroic Sword Maiden, one of the great heroes who was a member of the adventuring party that defeated the Demon King...thing is? She was kidnapped, raped, tortured and blinded by goblins as a young woman before her legend began and possesses a terrible phobia of them, which the Dark Elf intends to exploit....when these plans for foiled? He becomes the main villain of the Harvest Festival arc.
Using the goblins to gather more victims for sacrifices, the dark Elf also intends upon unleashing them upon Goblin Slayer's town during the festival, in an orgy of destruction and slaughter so he can summon Hecatoncheir and eventually more evil beings, including the Demon King, but first using Hecatoncheir to wipe out the town and then all else around them, throwing the world into anarchy and pain for the kicks of it. Operating behind a treacherous good guy who is eventually killed by Goblin Slayer, the Dark Elf ends up engaging the Party where he attempts to unleash the Goblins. Thwarted there, he summons the blessings of Hecatoncheir to sprout a multitude of arms from his back, protecting him from any piercing weapon. Gloating that the town will suffer horribly, he and Goblin Slayer's team continue their fight.
Goblin Slayer, though? Ain't having none of it. Turns out, one knife he took from his former enemy's corpse? Is meant for slashing and not piercing, so when it's thrown, it injured the Dark Elf...and it's poison. Enraged, The dark Elf tries for a last spell to take the party with him, only for Goblin Slayer's elf companion to fire a shaft through his throat, ending with him dying twitching in the dirt, choking on his own blood.
So, heinousness?
Goblin Slayer is a remarkably dark world, to say the least. It has a coat of cheery paint over it, but we have all sorts of monsters and threats, demon lords and evil sects, and the goblins are violent little rape monsters running rampant to violate, torture and slaughter all they can get away with (raising the fucking question of how they're seen as such a non-threat, but I digress). So, with all that in mind, we don't often have direct antagonists. Usually, they're just the goblin mobs, with a few exceptions. There's the Ogre from an early story who doesn't do much despite being the demon lord's general, most goblins being violent raiders one evil wizard...
So when we have named villains they stick out. Dark Elf's grandiose plans are probably the worst, given his relative standing in the setting. The Goblin Lord is less powerful than he i, but his plans of conquest and his 'rape victim human shield' plot is one of the nastier ones onscreen. I'd say both clear it, the Dark Elf with flying colors.
Mitigating qualities?
Okay, for the Dark Elf? I'm gonna cut some serious slack because the narration just kinda points out "Ah, most Dark Elves are evil with some exceptions) which is the same for DND where like 99.9 percent of the Drow Race are evil with purple-eyed, dual scimitar wielding exceptions...usually this flies just fine and he's the only example of the race we see, and obviously not all of them are part of the Evil Sect willing to jeopardize the world for the laughs. Besides this, the dark Elf has nothing to him. No redeeming qualities or nothing, and he's fully in control of himself.
The Goblin Lord is tougher as he's a goblin. Goblins in Goblin Slayer...their origins and capacity for agency is unknown but every goblin we've met has been an evil little rape and torture monster. They're cunning, vicious, cruel and brutal...the Goblin Lord is smarter than they are and more successful, and more powerful, and the goblins do maintain some nasty form of Moral Myopia ("They killed our people" say the guys who were attacked for raping and murdering innocents), but there's that. Now, Priestess does ask, when Goblin Slayer finishes off the goblin children he finds in a nest if good goblins exist. Goblin Slayer comments you might find them if you looked hard enough, but it's stupid to chance it and they wouldn't 'come out of their holes' anyways.
This has somewhat changed in recent volumes of the light novels. The goblin race might be advancing and we've seen a Goblin Paladin (still evil, but different) and a goblin priest who serves the demon lords to the point of being willing to lay down his life to summon them)..it's a bit hard to explain as the Goblin Lord is, hands down, the most successful and vile member of his race so far, and certainly one of the smartest. He's more heinous than his fellow goblins, solely because he's smarter, and has the capacity to do more because he's lasted so long and grown so powerful, ambitious and intelligent, but goblins in this series are vile as hell in general, with their origins shrouded in complete mystery (the closest we have is theorizing they're from a moon...again, unclear).
The DND mechanics do leave open the possibiliy that good goblins can exist, and the Goblin priests and Paladins (empowered by gods of good, weirdly) lend credence to that, but they die soon and are personally still evil. Anyways, it's a tough subject with no clear answer.
conclusion?
Dark elf is a definite yes. The Goblin Lord ticks most boxes we have, but the agency is the sticking point. There's no clear answer one way or the other, and he really ends up as the most successful and revolting member of a race who'd mostly do the same thing in his place if given the chance (Granted, his "haha, I've raped and tortured to death all the adventurers who ever showed pity on me" moment was nasty)
So, I can understand if one were to vote him down and would like discussion on him, but we have a definite yes in the Dark Elf, IMO.
Seathe, Nashandra, and Dark Elf. Given the questionable agency of goblins I'm gonna play it safe and vote
to the Goblin Lord. If good goblins ever are confirmed to exist my opinion may change, but I'm not really comfortable upvoting now. The show seems to emphasize that they are basically born evil.
Edited by TommyFresh on Jan 1st 2019 at 2:00:44 AM
Ah, Goblin Slayer. The show you almost only hear talked about because of the controversy of it's first episode.
Yes to Dark Elf, and honestly, I'll give a yes to the Goblin Lord as well. There might not be any good Goblins, but on the same token, it doesn't look like it's stated in the show that they have anything regarding moral agency issues.
Yes to Seathe, Nashandra, Dark Elf, and as for the Goblin Lord... eh, you know what? Write me down as a yes for him, too. Not just because of how revolting and knowingly awful he is, but I think the story does just enough to indicate that not all goblins have to be evil for me to feel comfortable voting him up.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Jan 1st 2019 at 2:11:12 AM
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It requires a lot of turning your brain off at times. Like I said, the setting requires some serious leaps of logic as to why the setting functions the way it does. Besides that, though, an the completely gratuitous sexual violence, it isn't bad...it's best with the fun adventure stuff...which makes the initial darkness more poorly gratuitous, TBH.
I also watched the series a bit but dropped around Episode 3 or 4 because of laziness. Also have an intent to recommend new manga of Jump Chainsaw Man to Goblin Slayer fans because why not :P
For the series itself, yeah... Its pretty controversial at best. Although I'm only in for the Witch lol
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 1st 2019 at 5:13:48 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The Dark Elf... but I'll abstain on the Goblin Lord, but no that I'll leaning keep. I guess we can revisit him since I wouldn't be surprised if good Goblins turn up.
Goblin Slayer himself is so cool. He's the Terminator for Goblins is one description of him I like.
EDIT: I've heard that the Light Novel handles... that moment a lot better. It sets the tone without being exploitative, being horrific rather than potentially... ugh. But I have little experience with GS meself.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Jan 1st 2019 at 10:16:42 AM
Interesting, quite the opposite of Goblins where the Goblin Slayer is the vicious CM.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Jan 1st 2019 at 4:15:02 AM
Hah. Yes, it's kind of the opposite of the more nuance d portrayal of Goblins and Order of the Stick
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You got it.
Meanwhile, I am now checking out the movie Sorceress which might seem promising, other potentials upcoming? Expect discussion on Bumblebee, Kitaro and Aquaman this weekend (that is NOT me saying anyone keeps, just discussion), my Rin Chupeco examples, one hell of a gimmicky video game called Lifeline/Operator's Side, and some B-horror films like The Veil and Feardotcom.
for me? A potential examples upcoming on the parameter this week, Possibly the Banana Fish ones, Release the Spyce ones and Gridman ones. Then I'll probably do a writeup on this current batch on Sunday unless if you guys are interested with one of them first, I'll do it earlier except for Banana Fish one.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Oh, Lighty, speaking of other works, a few questions about current keepers:
- Anything new for Goebbels or maybe Mengele for Uber?
- There was a manga you did not too long ago, about demons who were ranked, and the Big Bad was still around. Anything new there?
- Finally, I remember The Seven Deadly Sins had someone who we cut awhile ago. The person behind Hendricksen worth keeping an eye on?
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You're right, it is a little fat.
Original:
- Complete Monster: Dellyn Goblinslayer, ranger and captain of Brassmoon city's Elite Guard, is a highly sadistic bigot whose hobby was capturing live monsters, then vivisecting them in order to learn their weaknesses. One of Dellyn's preferred tortures was using knives specially designed to cause certain monsters the most excruciating pain imaginable in order to permanently mutilate them by carving insults into their skin. Other tortures included amputating limbs and, in one instance, flaying the skin off of a monster's back so that her spine was clearly visible. Planning on having his Elite Guards supplant Brassmoon's current guard to increase his political power, and mistakenly believing that a goblin army was ready to attack the city, Dellyn arranged a public execution for the goblin Fumbles, whose mind had already been shattered by Dellyn's tortures, in order to lure the other goblins out of hiding. Once they did so, Dellyn planned on his guards annihilating the "invading forces" so that the citizens of the city would back his political play. When one of his men told him that a lot of innocent bystanders would surely be caught in the crossfire, Dellyn was happy, noting that this would only make the rest of the citizens more grateful for having him around by showing them what's at risk. Dellyn also had a Yuan-Ti slave named Kin, who he abducted then raped and beaten on a nightly basis, repeatedly reducing her to her last hitpoint before reviving her with healing potions. Ultimately Dellyn was nothing more than a petty sadist whose greatest desire was to be worshiped as a heroic savior by the very people he'd sacrifice without a second thought.
Rewrite:
- Complete Monster: Dellyn Goblinslayer, ranger and captain of Brassmoon city's Elite Guard, is a highly sadistic bigot whose hobby was capturing live monsters, then vivisecting them in order to learn their weaknesses. Some Dellyn's preferred tortures were carving insults into their skin using knives specially designed to cause certain monsters excruciating pain, amputating limbs, and flaying the skin off of a monster's back down to her spine. Dellyn arranged a public execution for the goblin Fumbles, whose mind had already been shattered by Dellyn's tortures, in order to lure the other goblins out of hiding. Once they did so, Dellyn planned on his guards annihilating the "invading forces", as well innocent bystanders would surely be caught in the crossfire. Dellyn also had a Yuan-Ti slave named Kin, who he abducted then raped and beaten on a nightly basis, repeatedly reducing her to her last hitpoint before reviving her with healing potions. Ultimately Dellyn was nothing more than a petty sadist whose greatest desire was to be worshiped as a heroic savior by the very people he'd sacrifice without a second thought.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Jan 1st 2019 at 4:25:49 AM

to those I missed and
to a Halloween page.
Things are really about to get Fun around here