TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#142126: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:11:45 AM

There is no example in Dick Tracy; is there?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#142127: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:12:42 AM

Happy New Year's to all! I can't get to sleep, so I'm gonna bring up a series of games I'm surprised hasn't come up before as far as I've seen given its subject matter...

What's the setting?

Time Crisis is a series of light gunners from Bandai-Namco, focusing on soldiers and operatives from the American organization VSSE ("Vital Situation Swift Execution") being dispatched to solve various global crises. Many badass heroes and heroines face various international threats in the series with over-the-top, gloriously cliche plots and B-movie set-ups with the antagonists... that combined with an inherent lack of subtlety and that means we've got a few villains to look at. Maybe as many as four.

The first two I'm going to get out of the way because they're kind of standard... the villains of Time Crisis 3 and Time Crisis 4 respectively.

For the former? Giorgio Zott.

Who is Giorgio Zott? What has he done?

The bloodhungry militant who leads the Zagorias Federation, a country seeking to conquer its way through the Mediterranean, Zott has his soldiers from the Federation start forcefully occupying a territory in a small island community called Astigos... conquering the island through violent, unrelenting force, burning down houses and occupying about eighty percent of the island. Zott intends to build a missile base in the country and he's willing to provoke a full-out war with the neighboring countries as well... with his focus on Lukano, a beautiful country on the Mediterranean coast.

Zott? Engages in bloody conflict with Lukano's resistance armies and tries to force the country to surrender, with the entire unit of men and elder brother of one of the game's heroes Alicia captured by Zott. Zott threatens their lives to try and make them stand down and Zott personally sets up Alicia's elder brother for execution, sneering that the brother's life or death makes no difference to him, smashing the brother's face in with the butt of his gun just to compound it. Zott tries to execute Alicia's brother in front of the heroes when they happen upon his base, but he's thankfully foiled... and Zott reveals his final scheme. Zott's intending to use the tactical nukes he was storing in his missile base to just destroy all of Lukano out of spite and hatred for it, laughing that "I should have gotten rid of that pesky country a while ago." Zott engages in one final battle with the heroes as he tries to kill them, trying to cut them down with his sword, but of course, the VSSE agents win even as Zott spits to his last breath Lukano and its populace are already doomed.

Any mitigating factors?

Mmm... so, the main reason I was kind of hesitant to look into this series before is, given the series is a rail shooter with an overall playthrough lasting maybe under an hour on average? Characterization and story is obviously not abundant. Now, the stories get a bit more fleshed out as time goes on and there's obvious continuity and connectivity between plots, especially the recurring character of Wild Dog who's kind of the resident Ridley or Allen O'Neil recurring threat of the series, but Time Crisis 3 is working with a pretty shallow story.

Honestly, Zott... just cuts it for characterization, I think, and it's mostly in comparison to some other villains in the series. He's got a clear motive and basic characterization down, he's racist, smug, sadistic etc. Which is more than you can say for Derrick Lynch for example, who's just "blow up London because it exists or something grr." Minimal as his screentime is, for what Zott's working with, what's shown, and what he's explicitly planning to do (which, don't worry, is also going to stand out in heinousness... kickstarting a war and trying to blow up a country is bad even with a slew of nasty terrorrists in the series) I think Zott cuts it as he's pretty distinguishably nasty among many of the other baddies. Jake Hernandez from the same game is a slimy little weasel, but he's more just pathetic and leechy compared to Zott's ruthlessness.

Now... the other, from 4? Colonel Gregory Barrows.

Who is Colonel Barrows? What has he done?

Barrows is the leader of a special ops unit named the Biological Weapons Special Operations Unit, or the Hamlin Battalion, a unit infamous for its inhumane experiments on animals and the deaths of soldiers when there were attempts made to turn animals into genetically-altered killers. Disgusted with America for his piss-poor treatment in the military and its lack of authority, Barrows and his entire unit went rogue, developing a weapon called the "Terror Bites." What these are? Essentially horrific, genetically altered bug things that tear their victims to shred. Barrows? Starts to traffick them, while attacking key locations across the country, blowing up a dam and attacking a military research facility.

Eventually, with the Terror Bites, Barrows stages an attack on a military airforce base, having the Terror Bites massacre every soldier there and leaving flaming ruin in their wake... when the National Guard tries to aid? The Terror Bites start effortlessly slaughtering through waves of them, too. The aid of the VSSE agents turn the tide back to the heroes' favor and Barrows is cornered in his base, where he's already exulting. Barrows has ordered his men to soar across the United States and bomb every single major city in the country to oblivion, tearing the entire country apart and killing countless millions. Barrows destroys the self-destruct bridge (because of course there's a self-destruct bridge) and... mm, long story story, the VSSE soldiers climb a human bridge of their own men and shoot Barrows until he dies via cutscene.

Any mitigating factors?

I'd say nay. Not as many issues with characterization as Barrows has a clear motive and goals there, alongside the fact the Hamlin Battalion is probably the most well-characterized villainous organization in the entire series. Now, that does become a bit concerning when this brings up the battalion's — and Barrows' — surprisingly legitimate reason for turning rogue is because the government treated their accomplishments as basically mistakes to be covered up. Barrows got screwed over. Yes, getting angry about that is understandable. No, murdering hundreds of millions of people in what amounts to a hissy fit over it is not an understandable reaction in any way and the game doesn't treat it as such.

Heinousness? Clears. Giant body count, tries to destroy most of the United States out of petty retribution, etc. Barrows has no redeeming factors... his excuse doesn't justify or explain why he became such a nutbag and though his actual screentime is sparse, he's got enough of a defined reason through what we see and additional information in in-game biographies.

Conclusion?

I'd keep them both. For the rest of us all? I think it mostly depends how much credit we're willing to give villains from rail shooters — because I think these guys do cut it for otherwise stark plots (that and I believe we've had light gunner villains put up before). It's less and less of an issue with my next two potentials, too.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 1st 2019 at 6:33:42 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#142128: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:15:52 AM

Yes to both Time Crisis villains.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#142129: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:18:50 AM

[tup]Zott and Burrows

@Emperors: Lighty is looking at the comic strip. Since it's been around since the 30's, I don't doubt it has examples. Plus we approved Big Boy from the film already.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#142130: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:19:11 AM

Oh I've been meaning to look into that one. Yes to them.

Also @Scraggle Who's that guy on your pfp? :3

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#142131: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:19:33 AM

Oh, I must have missed the proposal. Can you link me to it so I could vote?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#142132: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:21:17 AM

[up][up] The farmer from Bee and PuppyCat. "And from the sacrifice of one, a bounty of life springs forward. Or as the lamb is laid in the soil, the flesh may rot but the soul nurtures the crop."

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#142133: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:23:27 AM

[up][up]Here

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=5682#comment-142026

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#142134: Jan 1st 2019 at 4:24:11 AM

Late yes to Big Boy in that case.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142136: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:06:32 AM

I think the only rail shooter guy we have so far is Tokkentakker; my proposal of Helga was voted down.

I'll give a yes to both. I get a feeling Wild Dog is a third proposal; I wonder who the other is.

Interesting thing about Barrows is, while his Freudian Excuse may not be disqualifying here, I could see it handled in a way where it IS mitigating enough to disqualify, in a work with more plot than a rail shooter.

Edited by ACW on Jan 1st 2019 at 8:10:04 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#142137: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:20:58 AM

Now, the next candidate (I lied... there might be five potentials)? None other than the closest thing to a series Big Bad, Wild Dog himself.

Who is Wild Dog? What has he done?

The leader of the mercenary criminal syndicate the Wild Dog Organization, the terrorist-for-hire known as Wild Dog is a seemingly-unkillable man defined by two things; his love of carnage and his hatred of VSSE. Like, unbelievable, persistent hatred. Wild Dog appears in almost every game in the series, wreaking havoc and selling out his syndicate's services for nefarious plots... and underlining all of them? Finding some way to slaughter VSSE's agents.

Debuting in the first game helping deposed dictator Sherudo Garo try to overthrow the peaceful rulers and install a cruel dictatorship in the country of Sercia (totally not Serbia), Wild Dog serves as Sherudo's chief-of-security, killing anyone who opposes him until Sherudo is killed. Angry that he's out of a job, Wild Dog tries to rig the entire Sercian castle and everyone in it to blow while trying to murder resident damsel Rachel, injuring her... before seemingly dying in an accidental explosion.

Seemingly. Wild Dog? Every single game, explodes, comes back with a gatling gun where his arm was. In Titan Strike? Wild Dog aids an assassin in Caruba (toooootally not Cuba) to (seemingly) assassinate the President and frame the VSSE for it... until Wild Dog betrays and murders his own boss, taking the titanium robot army he was working on and planning to unleash the army to destroy anyone who challenges him. After that, Wild Dog sells out his services to the Big Bad of every successive game every chance he gets for a chance to get back at the VSSE, while having his minions destroy all they can... Wild Dog helps with a world takeover scheme with a series of satellites in 2, with starting a war in 3, trying to destroy the USA in 4, and — perhaps inadvertantly, to be fair — serving as a pawn in the complex scheme behind 5.

Where Wild Dog really comes to shine, though, most unexpectedly? In one of the mobile spinoffs, 2nd Strike, where a mysterious organization called "WD" (three guesses for what the initial stands for!) stealing a prototype nerve gas... Wild Dog is the mastermind in this game with his boldest revenge scheme yet. Wild Dog tortures the director of DARPA for access codes to its resources and the nerve gas, has another scientist murdered to silence him from giving out information, and reveals his plan to have the city nerve gassed, leading to a rush to stop them. Except gassing the city? Was a distraction. The city is narrowly saved, but Wild Dog reveals his true plan was to hijack a bunch of military bombers while VSSE was preoccupied with the "nerve gas" thing and lead a multi-pronged nuclear annihilation of six cities around the globe. Wild Dog is once again stopped... and I presume he'll come back with an steel jaw or something if we get a Time Crisis 6.

Any mitigating factors?

Nope. Redeemers? No — he trains an apprentice named Wild Fang but there doesn't really seem to be much overt care there, and neither does he have any moment of standards that isn't borne out of pragmatism or self-benefit ("my boss is dead!... what am I gonna do to get paid now?"). The standard's even less of a problem. Wild Dog has a hand in almost every nasty plot in the game with plenty of nasty ones on his own. 2nd Strike is really where the kiddy gloves come off and he comes into his own as a baddie, but Wild Dog is a consistently nasty customer throughout driven by nothing but bloodlust and petty vengeance.

Conclusion?

Keep him. Closest thing to a Big Bad the series has and probably one of the nastier in the series.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 1st 2019 at 6:22:35 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#142139: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:28:23 AM

[tup]Wild Dog

Which is weird ss Wild Dogs are so cute in real life

Edited by miraculous on Jan 1st 2019 at 5:30:51 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#142140: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:34:08 AM

[tup] Tyanna, Zott, Barrows, and Wild Dog.

Edited by TommyFresh on Jan 1st 2019 at 5:34:22 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#142142: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:43:42 AM

[tup] Hammerhead.

[tup] Tyanna.

[tup] Zott and Barrows.

[tup] Wild Dog.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142143: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:44:54 AM

And a yes to Wild Dog. Not the most complex character, but seems like he has enough personality to count.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#142144: Jan 1st 2019 at 5:59:22 AM

I also say yes to Tyanna... It's amazing that we got another ASOIAF CM despite the nasty shit Ramsay and Gregor had done. Speaking of ASOIAF, I wonder if Euron slowly becomes worse and worse as the time goes on?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#142145: Jan 1st 2019 at 6:10:58 AM

[tup]Hammerhead, Tyanna, Time Crisis villains

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#142146: Jan 1st 2019 at 6:38:16 AM

[tup] Wild Dog.

And [tup] to Tyanna.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142147: Jan 1st 2019 at 7:14:10 AM

So why does Tyanna have the kids poisoned in the womb? To eliminate competition?

EDIT: And after some research, it appears Dick Tracy was originally gonna be released under the Disney banner before it was moved to Touchstone, so I think it can indeed stay at the Disney page.

Edited by ACW on Jan 1st 2019 at 10:48:50 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#142148: Jan 1st 2019 at 8:16:23 AM

[tup]Tyanna and Time Crisis villains.

Why so serious?
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#142149: Jan 1st 2019 at 8:44:49 AM

[tup] All I missed!

Help me!

Total posts: 326,048
Top