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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#142101: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:05:11 PM

It's a little after 12:00 AM where I live, so happy New Year to you, guys! I hope 2019 is good to you all!

Anyway, since people were okay with it, I'd say it's time for an effortpost to ring in the New Year! And I'm excited, because it's one I've been waiting to do for a while...

What's the work?

Spider-Man, a smash hit superhero game on the PS 4 starring: you guessed it, Spider-Man. This game takes place in it's own universe where Peter Parker, a.k.a Spider-Man is an established crimefighter who's been at this game for eight years. And after defeating his long-time arch enemy Wilson Fisk, a.k.a the Kingpin and getting him arrested, he inadvertently leaves a massive, gaping power vacuum in his wake. And things get worse from there: Martin Li/Mr. Negative and his Demon gang ravages the city with terrorist attacks, Otto Octavius goes insane and unleashes a medical cure-turned bioweapon on Manhattan, Mayor Norman Osborn hires a shady eastern European mercenary team known as Sable International to uphold the law through oppression and trampling on people's civil liberties... but as expected, Spidey saves the day, but not without some heavy losses on his end.

With Dr. Octopus and his Sinister Six locked away and Stormin' Norman in hiding, life in New York goes back to being somewhat normal. But as to be expected in a superhero setting, that kind of peace never lasts: enter the DLC story arc known as "The City That Never Sleeps", where a few months after the Devil's Breath incident, a prominent crime lord decides to make his move and establish himself as the next Wilson Fisk... meet one of my personal favorite underrated Spider-Man villains, Hammerhead.

Who is Hammerhead?

A brutally powerful, surprisingly crafty Maggia don with a thick iron plate surgically implanted in his head, Hammerhead is a soft-spoken, sadistic gangster with a fondness for vintage mafia aesthetics and a yearning for the "good old days". And by good old days, of course, he means the days when the cops knew their place and let thugs like Hammerhead rule New York with an iron fist while they looked the other way.

But Hammerhead knows that in the wake of all the crazy shit that's gone down in Manhattan, he's gonna be left in the dust if he doesn't evolve and adapt to the age of crazy powerful supervillains and the heroes who rise up to stop them. And when Sable International leaves a bunch of powerful, extremely dangerous tech behind when they leave New York, he sees this as one hell of a golden opportunity to make his move...

What does he do?

In the first DLC chapter The Heist, Hammerhead himself isn't an active threat and stays in the shadows, but the effects of his villainy are felt throughout the chapter: there are plenty of side missions dedicated to disarming groups of bombs he's planted around the city to kill people who have crossed him without any regard for collateral damage. And in the main story proper, he has the infamous, crafty cat burglar Felicia Hardy a.k.a Black Cat steal important flash drives from the other four Maggia families that contain their assets, and hopes to bankrupt them into submission. But the second he realizes he can't trust her, he opts to have her apartment rigged with explosives and detonates them when she returns to it, seemingly killing her.

Now that he can't pacify the Maggia dons through their assets, Hammerhead opts to tear the streets of Manhattan apart with a gang war: in the second DLC chapter Turf Wars he arms his men with powerful Sable tech that he's been hoarding and has his men wage war with the other Maggia families out in the open while he continues to have his men hunt down and kill civilians who have ended up on his shit list. Now taking the spotlight as an active threat, Hammerhead gives himself one hell of a proper establishing scene in the DLC's beginning: when Spider-Man and his cop ally Yuri Watanabe try to apprehend Hammerhead with carefully applied diversion tactics, Hammerhead is able to turn the tables on them and captures Yuri's men. While ranting about how cops don't respect him anymore, he slowly, methodically murders his way through Yuri's men one by one by caving in their skulls in with a killer headbutt, while a helpless Yuri is forced to watch. When Spider-Man swings in to save the day, Hammerhead escapes after a particularly heated firefight with a broken, traumatized Yuri in his wake.

As the DLC goes on, Hammerhead proves to be something of an expert of diversion tactics himself and keeps outsmarting Spider-Man while working towards his master plan: Spidey tries to protect the other Maggia dons by fighting off a squad of Hammerhead's goons trying to break into their safehouse, which leaves Hammy free to tunnel in from below with a drilling vehicle and abduct them while Spidey is kept busy outside. And when he has his men go steal Sable tech, it turns out to be a smokescreen so he can have the rest of his men blow the NYPD precinct to smithereens and slaughter a bunch of cops without the wall-crawler's interference: partially so he can obtain a particularly powerful piece of Sable tech known as the Project Olympus power armor, partially so he can hurt Yuri even more. And now with the Maggia dons in his grip, Hammerhead suits up with the Olympus armor and moves ahead with his endgame: murder the Maggia dons by slowly drowning them in cement, and broadcasting it to the citizens of New York so he can terrify them into submission.

Fortunately Spider-Man is able to save the dons and defeat Hammerhead, but when things are looking up, a revenge-crazed Yuri subdues Spider-Man and seemingly murders old Hammy, having completely gone off the deep end and lost herself to revenge, a reaction Hammerhead was clearly fishing for given his smug attitude during the whole ordeal. This leads to her being shitcanned by the NYPD, and when Hammerhead is hauled off in an ambulance, it turns out he was only mostly dead, and is resurrected by one of his men posing as a paramedic.

And now with Yuri out of the way and the Olympus armor in his grip, Hammerhead spends his time during the Silver Linings DLC trying to arm himself with more Sable weaponry. After coercing an Oscorp scientist into helping him replicate the procedure that made him nearly invincible on threat of death, Hammerhead successfully upgrades his gang alongside him... and with a lot of gangsters killed when the process would go wrong, leading to them being stuffed into bodybags and callously left to drift in the sewer water. And along with stealing Sable tech, he's also been hoarding humanitarian aid meant to help the citizens suffering from a bloody civil war tearing a foreign country apart, just because he's a greedy dick.

When he's confronted by Spider-Man and Sable International boss Silver Sable, he reveals that's converted himself into a barely-human cyborg monstrosity and nearly kills the pair before Black Cat pounces out of nowhere and saves them, having fakes her death. But unfortunately, Hammy is able to grab Sable while retreating and drags her back to his lair beneath New York, and has one of his men torture her with a power drill so he can get access to the deadliest Sable tech she has. After Spider-Man saves her, the two team up and utilize a hidden weakness of Hammerhead's revealed by Black Cat: heat. They soften his head plate with a heated laser and after an intense one on one fight that ends with Sable flying her plane into Hammerhead, he drops his smug demeanor and flips out before succumbing to his wounds and either fainting or dying. It's never clarified but either way, the Hammer falls and New York is safe once again... until the Green Goblin and Venom raise hell in the sequel, of course.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

I'd say yes. Now first things first, he definitely lacks the attempted body count that Doc Ock and Mr. Negative aimed for: those guys both tried to wipe out Manhattan with a bioweapon (With Otto taking it even further by trying to poison the water supply, attacking relief centers, trying to take out the power grid), while Hammerhead merely opts to control it. But of course, this boils down to them being two different types of villains: Ock and Negative are vengeful terrorists trying to destroy Manhattan as a twisted, misguided form of revenge against Norman Osborn for ruining the life of the former and constantly hurting the latter by burning down everything precious to him. And as a crime boss who NEEDS a living, breathing population to bully around and force to follow his bidding, it would be counterproductive for Hammerhead to try to kill everyone in Manhattan. I remember this was a point argued in Penguin's favor in the Arkham games, where he's a crime boss who wants to rake in profits as opposed to mass-murdering lunatics Joker and Scarecrow, and I believe the same goes for Hammy.

And when all is said and done, Hammerhead's still impressively awful. He's a monstrous cop killer behind two different police massacres done solely to hurt and antagonize one of them. Side missions show that he has a damn big body count both attempted and successful: along with random side missions where you protect witnesses from his wrath, there's one quest line involving the rise of the vigilante Wraith where you find nine police reports detailing gruesome murders he had a particularly dedicated hitman of his carry out with methods such as throwing people to their deaths, death by electrocution, and drowning. His attempted murder of the other Maggia dons by slowly drowning them is also on a whole different level of cruelty barely seen in the game, same with letting his men torture Sable (the only other torturer in the game is Scorpion, who does it to a nameless Sable goon). In his weight class occupied by fellow crime lords his main competition is Kingpin and Tombstone, both of whom never rise above standard villainy. So yeah, I'd say he keeps.

Any mitigating factors or a valid Freudian Excuse?

No and no, Hammerhead is a far cry from the tragic villains in the main game. He's a power hungry bastard looking out for number one, loves hurting others, and has no sympathetic motives for his actions. The closest thing he gets to a moment of decency is complimenting Sable and Spidey for putting up such a good fight during the final boss battle and offering them a seat at his table, but even then it's just him grandstanding and hoping to potentially have people as powerful as them under his thumb, and he's more than happy to try to kill them anyway.

Final Thoughts?

When I said that I'd be keeping an eye on Hammerhead after the first DLC chapter was released, I honestly didn't expect him to be anything more than a generic mafia/maggia boss and wasn't being too serious. But... damn. He got awful in a hurry as the DLC went on. I'd say that Hammy definitely makes the mark as the first CM in this promising take on the Spider-Man mythos, but what do you guys think?

And on an amusing note: if he keeps, he's going to be the second Keith Silverstein-voiced CM from a video game I've gotten voted up, with both villains' game of origin releasing a month apart from each other. Gotta love those weirdly specific niches, ha ha.

Edited by FriedWarthog on Dec 31st 2018 at 10:09:04 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#142102: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:09:44 PM

[tup] to hammerhead.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#142103: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:10:38 PM

Sure on Hammerhead. And dont forget to vote on my candidate at Page 5683

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#142104: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:10:48 PM

My last write up of the year:

  • Grogar: A Hearths Warming Horror Story and Grogar: Screams Upon a Winter's Night: Grogar is an evil sorcerer who sacrificed the rest of his race for immortality. Banished to the land of Tambelon by Celestia and Luna, Grogar returns every Hearths Warming Eve to kill those who lose their faith in the spirit of Hearths Warming and transform them into his undead minions, along with everyone else who happens to be in the area. In the original, he kills Applejack, Big Mac, Granny Smith, Silver Spoon, Scootaloo, and Marble Pie, before freezing all of Ponyville and killing the inhabitants. In the sequel, Grogar returns and kills more ponies before freezing Trottingham, and it is revealed that he plans to keep gradually freezing towns across Equestria until he has turned the entire land into a frozen wasteland devoid of life, so he can rule over it and keep everyones souls enslaved forever.

jjj
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#142105: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:12:00 PM

[tup] Maghda, Hishii, Raven, Mercury, and Hammerhead.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#142106: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:18:10 PM

Anyway, since I got the effortpost out of the way, yes to Maghda, Hiishi, Big Boy Caprice, Raven, and Mercury.

Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#142109: Dec 31st 2018 at 10:27:26 PM

[tup] Hammerhead and all candidates that I missed.

Happy New Year to everyone!!

Watch me destroying my country
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#142111: Dec 31st 2018 at 11:51:16 PM

My first post of the new year, and a special one! From a work we all know...from a Song of Ice and Fire, namely the Histories of Archmaester Gyldayn...

So, ASOIAF's monster page needs a little gender diversity. With this in mind, I give you...Tyanna of the Tower.

Who is Tyanna?

Established CM Maegor the Cruel? During the reign of his brother, the weak King Aenys, Maegor left Westeros for Essos and the free Cities there....he took a second wife, Alys Harroway, despite still maybe kinda sorta being married to his first. ...while in the city of Pentos? He met the wealthy, beautiful Tyanna and took her as a mistress, returning to Westeros with her. Tyanna was rumored to dabble in dark sorcery, alchemy, etc. and became Maegor's most trusted spymaster. When Aenys died from illness and stress, Maegor usurped his nephews' throne....and one of the chief cornerstones of his rule? Was Tyanna. With her skill in information gathering, Tyanna set about fostering the ruin of Maegor's enemies...and also proved to be a very adept torturer, with tons of people given to her for questioning. They didn't survive. Tyanna worked to bring about the deaths of thousands under Maegor, callously selling others out to the increasingly brutal and vicious king.

Worse still? When Maegor killed his eldest nephew, the second eldest, Prince Viserys attempted to take up arms in the rebellion against Maegor...Maegor captured Viserys and knowing that their mother was the most dangerous element against them? Tyanna took Viserys and 'questioned' him for nine days until he died of the torture. It also turned out that Tyanna was a little less faithful on certain accounts than Maegor would like. In one incident? When Queen Alys gave birth to a horrific stillborn (the other thing Maegor could seemingly father), Tyanna convinced Maegor that Alys had cheated on him. Flying into mad fury, Maegor had every member of House Harroway executed...and gave Alys to Tyanna who happily tortured her co-queen and possible lover to death...along with dozens of suspected lovers of poor Alys.

Oh, and when Maegor demanded his own niece arrive to him and submit herself to be one of his three new wives? Tyanna had her daughters kidnapped to force her to comply, gleefully giving an Implied Death Threat to their mother. It became apparent, even to Maegor, that Tyanna's ambitions didn't serve his needs anymore, though, and he had her arrested...Tyanna confessed the truth: she had poisoned all of Maegor's other wives if they got with child to prevent them from bearing Maegor's heir. Enraged at being deceived, Maegor carved out her heart and fed it to the dogs. Exit Tyanna.

Heinousness?

ASOIAF, 'nuff said. That said...Tyanna's pretty goddamn impressive. Torture and murder of dozens on her own...very nasty and extended. She's complicit in a great deal of what Maegor does, turning him on others to cause the deaths of thousands, the extinction of a noble house, forcing a woman to be party to her own rape at Maegor's hands, turning unborn babies into stillborn abominations...in all of Gyldayn's histories, she's the worst besides Maegor so far. I'd give her a pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nothing ever indicates she loves Maegor...she's jealous nd wants to be the top, but for whatever reason, couldn't have kids...so she takes it out in the worst way. But genuine love? Nothing implies it whatsoever here. Tyanna is wantonly sadistic and cruel, with tons of blood on her hands and not a trace of redeeming quality.

Conclusion?

Methinks...keeper.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#142112: Dec 31st 2018 at 11:55:04 PM

[tup]Tianna

Not only will it be the New Year in a few minutes, my Birthday will be on the second of January.

IPP Wick Check created.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#142113: Jan 1st 2019 at 12:15:03 AM

[tup] to Tianna and happy early birthday Master Joseph!

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 1st 2019 at 12:15:21 PM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#142115: Jan 1st 2019 at 12:30:03 AM

[tup]Hishii, Raven, Mercury, Hammerhead and Tyanna

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142116: Jan 1st 2019 at 1:22:09 AM

I'm...unsure about where Big Boy should go. How involved was Disney? Apocalypto, for example, was also Touchstone.

bobg, Drafts please.

[tup] Maghda; the Judge; Raven & Mercury; Hammerhead (besides Shido, who I believe is the other VG CM you mentioned, Keith also did the English voice for Johan Liebert); Tyanna of the Tower.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#142117: Jan 1st 2019 at 1:34:07 AM

[tup] Maghda, Mercury and Hammerhead.

And Big Yes to Tyanna, who is not only first female CM in ASOIAF, but also first CM born in Essos.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#142118: Jan 1st 2019 at 1:40:17 AM

Silverstein is also Georg Weissmann and Joker

Edited by miraculous on Jan 1st 2019 at 1:41:46 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#142120: Jan 1st 2019 at 2:05:36 AM

[tup] To Tyanna the very first female ASOIAF (I wonder if Tyanna and Cersei would make good gal pals?)

Edited by G-Editor on Jan 1st 2019 at 12:06:06 AM

ClownPrince47 Since: Sep, 2016
#142121: Jan 1st 2019 at 2:07:20 AM

[tup] Tyanna. Nice to see more evil ladies getting recognition.

finalsurvivor1 Since: Jan, 2012
#142122: Jan 1st 2019 at 2:22:48 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] I think the other Silverstein CM Fried was referring to is actually Dr. Wily, who Silverstein voiced in Mega Man 11.

[down]Yeah, but Wily's the only one I saw who fits that very specific niche Fried mentioned, Mega Man 11 was Silverstein's first outing as the character, and the Wily proposal (which was done by Fried) was done once it was time for the Mega Man 11 discussion. And it's not Shido; trust me. I was the one who proposed him last year. (EDIT: Two years ago, I guess. Heh, that's what happens when you reminisce on New Year's Day.)

Edited by finalsurvivor1 on Jan 1st 2019 at 5:41:39 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142123: Jan 1st 2019 at 2:31:30 AM

True, but wasn't it only Mega Man X!Wily who counted?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#142124: Jan 1st 2019 at 3:03:57 AM

Yes to Tyanna.

Also the Dick Tracy film was produced by Touchstone Pictures a company owned by Disney and the same people who did Roger Rabbit, which is on Disney. Also Disney released the film under Buena Vista Pictures and at their resort at Lake Buena Vista. They Co fonded the film with Beatty.

Edited by Bullman on Jan 1st 2019 at 6:32:15 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#142125: Jan 1st 2019 at 3:33:41 AM

Roger Rabbit's an interesting example, since that example actually has Disney characters. Should the other Touchstone films with CMs (Apocalypto, King Arthur) be moved to Disney?

Though it seems Disney played a big role in Dick Tracy, so...I dunno.

Edited by ACW on Jan 1st 2019 at 6:34:13 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

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