During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Here's an effort post for Maghda from Diablo 3, as being reminded of Lazarus made me remember I thought she has just as bad as Lazarus and Adria.
Who is Maghda and what has she done?
Maghda served as the Starter Villain for Diablo 3 and the set the tone for what the rest of the game would be like. Maghda was once an ambitious young witch apart of a demon worshiping cult known as the Coven, alongside Adria. Maghda felt that the Coven was becoming weak and stagnant under its current leadership, so she persuaded Adria to poison the current leaders and assumed control. Adria left the cult soon after to pursue her own goals under the guidance of Diablo, leaving Maghda in full control of the Coven. The Coven soon fell under the worship of Belial, the Lord of Lies, and, under Maghda's guidance, grew in power and spread death and corruption in their wake. Soon, the events of Diablo 3 transpire and the angel Tyrael falls to the world of Sanctuary and his holy sword shatters into three pieces near the town of New Tristram.
Belial orders Maghda to retrieve the shards of the powerful artifact. The first piece lands in the fields outside the town, so Maghda dominates the local population of goat men and has them attack the city to distract from her efforts. The goat men also slaughter all the townspeople living outside the city and kidnap many to be sacrificed in the coven's dark rituals. Sadly for her, the Nephalem arrives and manages to find the first and second sword pieces, but gets to the third piece first. The third piece landed in the village of Wortham, thus Maghda ordered her cultists to slaughter everyone in the city while they searched for the final piece. When the Nephalem arrives, Maghda has the local church set on fire as it housed the surviving men, women, and children of Wortham to serve as a distraction while she personally went to New Tristram.
In New Tristram, Maghda led an assault on the town to retrieve the other sword pieces and captured Tyrael, Leah, and Deckard Cain in the process. She tortures Cain to force him to remake the sword, and, when that proves futile, begins torturing Leah to get him to cooperate. Leah's latent demonic power ignites and wipes out the cultists, but Maghda manages to escape while also kidnapping Tyrael. Cain dies of his wounds and the player heads out to rescue Tyrael and enact vengeance on the Coven. They eventually make their way to old King Leoric's manor where they discover a terrible sight in the dungeons below. The Coven has appropriated the old torture chambers to be used in their own dark rituals. It becomes readily apparent that Magdha had hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people brutally tortured and killed in all kinds of disgusting ways from a variety of torture devices, fire pits, an gigantic death traps. These people were sacrificed in demonic summoning rituals and then raised from the dead to serve the Coven as undead slaves. The Nephalem fights their way through the Coven until they confront Maghda at the bottom, though she manages to escape. They barely arrived in time to save Tyrael as Maghda had nearly tortured him to death.
Escaping to the west, Maghda and the Coven serve Belial in a more direct role by serving as a distraction while their master's plans are being enacted. They rampage through the deserts near the city of Caldeum, leaving a trail of death and destruction for the Nephalem to follow. They eventually arrive at the city of Alcarnus where they further butcher the thousands of people in the city in Belial's name. In the process, Maghda grows paranoid and desperate to stop the Nephalem, and so sends scores of her cultists out to be slaughtered in an effort to slow down the hero. Eventually, Maghda is confronted and killed by the player and her soul is sent to Hell to be tormented for her failures.
Any mitigating factors?
Maghda has Undying Loyalty towards Belial, but that is never mitigating if you're serving an evil power.
The main issue is how she stacks up to the other human characters. Adria will certainly come to people's minds faster as her betrayal of her daughter Leah is one of the cruelest personal evils in recent memory, but Maghda has the sheer body count. The torture she and her cult inflict on the innocent make up for much of the worst gore and body horror in the game and certainly does a good job at setting the mood for the rest of the experience. In truth, her torture and murder of Deckard Cain was certainly a gut punch for many of the long time Diablo players, so she even leaves quite the impact on a personal level. Overall, I see her on the same level of depravity and evil as Adria and Lazarus.
Final Verdict?
I'm quite confident that Maghda deserves a
.
First CM EP of the year. So two weeks had pass and I'm tempting to EP someone from an anime that I watched known as Akanesasu Shoujo and anyone counts in there? The answer is maybe because this candidate is rather tricky to talk into mainly because of her tiny possible mitigating factors that she had. But I'm cool if this candidate in question getting an EP because why not. Without further ado, lets begin
What's the Work
Akanesasu Shoujo is a 2018 anime that tells us the adventures of the High schooler, Asuka Tsuchimiya, and her friends from the radio club "Crystal Radio Club", Chloe Morisu, Yuu Tonaka, Mia Silverstone and Nanase Nana. Together, they sometimes perform a ritual in a specific time and specific place, at 4:44 pm and near the specific tree with a radio frequency as their code. Everytime they perform said ritual, they will be transported to other worlds known as the fragments and each fragments was revealed to be covered in Twilight or either another dimension that the heroes visit. In said dimension? They encountered another version of themselves and anyone who ended up becoming the link will ended up in the body of their other dimensional counterpart.
Yeah, that's a bit of a confusing story alright but I'll try at my best to explain the plot to you guys. Anyways, our candidate in question here came from Episode 4-5 where Mia Silverstone ended up becoming the link for the ritual that the Crystal Radio Club performed and as a result, they were transformed in another fragment in a form of Wild West world combined with Modern World together. Now, everything seems to be okay until you learned that the place is not pretty tourist friendly because of the constant duels that the citizens had. Our candidate in question? Was actually the pioneer of the dueling program that happened in said world... Judge Hiishi.
Who is She/What Has She Done
Okay, so Hiishi here is actually the judge from this world who decides to gave the citizens who commit other crimes a punishment by letting the people doing some duels in order to decide their fate. Her establishing character moment in the show is that she hosted a duel between the two people who disputed their land which resulted on one of them dying because of the gunshot. Even the spectator who watched the duel said the current trials that she committed is rather boring compared to the previous trials that she committed because they were much interesting, implying that she had done this before this trial happened. The reason she did this is that in order to get more views and support to become a popular judge of the year. Even Mia commented on how unfair the trial is.
After the trial, Mia asked the Sheriff that she worked for, Sheriff Hakuma, regarding if duels are the things in order to make some decisions, Hakuma told Mia that it was revealed the duels are done for civil disputes and if there's a clear evident of someone committing a crime, a sheriff can charge someone guilty without a duel and this is the sheriff works to find more evidence regarding it. I need you to pay attention to this line of course. After said conversation, the Judge met with the Sheriff and Mia herself and she was just saying hello and compliment Mia's position as a new sheriff while smugly grinned behind their backs.
In Episode 5, unfortunately the main characters including some of their counterparts were forced to rob a bank thanks to the idea of the Sassy Counterpart of Yuu who travels through said fragment. During the judgement, Judge Hiishi gave the girls an unfair punishments such as forced to work in mines for more than 40-50 years and this is decided by Sheriff Hakuma himself and if there is anyone who "insults" the court will have their punishment extended for 60 years. The real Asuka and Yuu learned this in hard way. The Judge however, tries to pit them in a duel if the main characters want to escape the punishment they had been given. But only the winning team that will be released by the Judge and the rest were left to die. Oh! Yeah, if anyone protested, the judge will extended the year of punishment again to increase her dickishness and let the court adjourned pretty fast.
Mia is truly disgusted by the trial and complained this to the Sheriff who is seemingly "disgusted" by the unfair trial too but had no choice to obey said trial. During the duel of the main characters thanks to the Judge (On an additional note, anyone who doesn't win the duel will be executed completely by her subordinates), fortunately Asuka's other counterpart, or better known as Seriouska, gave Mia a casette tape that exposed the Judge and the Sheriff dark secret:
It was revealed that both of the Judge and the Sheriff are conspiring with each other, and the latter even admits that he doesn't regret to capture some bounty hunters and fugitives for the Judge in order to gain more power and support from the citizens. And it was revealed that the two of them were actually "Clutters" which is a creature from Twilight World produced by the Twilight King in order to destroy several fragments and both the Judge and the Sheriff use the duels in order to gain more power. And when they expose themselves as the Clutter who plagued the Wild West world, the heroes then fight against them and after Mia releases her twilight self during the fight and wins said fight, the Judge is disappointed by her defeat as with the accumulated power that she had, she will have the whole Wild West swallowed by Twilight while the Sheriff himself, before dying, wonder on how Mia ended up becoming stronger and after this, they ended up faded from existence for good this time.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Okay, this is where things getting tricky and you guys will said no after this. So after ended up getting exposed by the serious version of Asuka, we have this dialogue between her and Sheriff Hakuma:
- Judge Hiishi: You've done a great job, Sheriff Hakuma.
- Sheriff Hakuma: My current request is rather easy, Your Highness. Catching the fugitives and the bounties at the same time is pretty easy.
- Judge Hiishi: I'm sure that the fight between the girls will be watched by many spectators. If they didn't fight with each other, we can just murder them. That would be spectacular.
- Sheriff Hakuma: This year you probably going to be the popular judge too.
- Judge Hiishi: The citizens of this town are easy to be controlled, right? If they were given a spectacular show, they would be glad and loyal to me. That's what I really want.
Yeah, I'm not sure if this dialogue is truly mitigating factor for the judge herself and nevermind the fact that before this dialogue was revealed, the Sheriff himself seemingly hates the trial that the Judge had committed. Mir said this dialouge isn't mitigating due to the judge is presenting her Faux Affably Evil persona which I'm unsure of but I think I'm a bit agree on this one. Aside from that mitigating factor, no... While she does compliment Mia's new position at first, she doesn't care that much about her and when her chips are done, she, alongside with the Sheriff, willingly tries to fight against Mia so yeah... Oh! And agency's no issue here as she loved her job on being the judge and I think punishing someone with Gladiatoral Games in order to gain more support are a tad bit excessive even for a Clutter so yeah...
Heinous Standard
So... I'm not going to sugarcoat this but in the anime, there's also another Clutter who is revealed to be the AI who kidnaps several people and enslave them with its technology and the Big Bad/The Dragon tries to commit an omnicide by destroying the reality while letting the Twilight devour all of the fragments and she doesn't count due to legitimate FE and the last minute redeeming quality she had and I think she was just a merely an adversary of the King of Twilights.
Aside for that, I think the Judge can make it due to her unique niche in the setting (Gladiatoral Games... Need I say more). While the multiple duels are a bit offscreen, we actually saw one of the duels between the other two people who disputed the land and her trying to kill the heroes via the duel. Heck, its also revealed that the Wild West counterpart of Chloe and Nana, who are revealed to be bandits in Wild West, took care of the orphaned children because of the duel that happened left and right that resulted on their deaths and even one of the spectator of the duel said that this is not the first time the Judge did it so it establish the pattern nicely. She also has an additional crimes to let the Twilight consume the Wild West world after she accumulates more power which puts them nicely on the tier with those duo I mentioned.
Final Verdict
Unsure of this one. I'm cool if she doesn't keep due to this dialogue that made you unsure of her qualifications and the concerns on the heinous standard as a whole. If you want, I can also include the Sheriff on the writeup if the Judge ended up getting approved because they're equally bad. But still, I'm torn on this one due to that dialogue. Until then, thoughts?
And sure to Maghda and Cinder Fall as well.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."I was gonna wait until 11:30 here to do the Dick Tracy (1990) writeup, but I’ve gone out now. In the drafts as we speak:
- Dick Tracy: Alphonse "Big Boy" Caprice is a mob boss seeking to take possession of everything in the city for profit. After having a rival gang shot to death while playing cards, he strong arms Lips Manlis into turning over control of his nightclub, territory and girlfriend Breathless Mahoney (who Big Boy threatens and mistreats) to him before having Lips killed in a cement bath (put into a cement filled crate and dropped into the river). Part of Big Boy's plan is to unit all the remaining gangs together under him and when one rejects him, Big Boy has their car bombed as they're leaving. Trying to get Dick Tracy out of his way, Big Boy bribes him and when he rejects it, tries to leave him to die next to a broken furnace about to blow. Upon discovering his new club has been bugged by Tracy, Big Boy has the cop informing on him almost given the same cement bath as Lips and then takes part in killing Fletcher, the DA in his pocket, to frame Tracy. Framed for the abduction of Tracy’s girlfriend Tess Trueheart by rival gangster The Blank (really Breathless), Big Boy abandons his men and runs off with her, nearly letting her head get crushed by a clockwork. He also shoots and morally wounds Blank/Breathless too.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 6th 2019 at 10:43:30 AM
Maghda And Hiishi
What about Belial and Baal from the Diablo series, do they count also?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffThat's what I'll do: Between the first two groups:
- Entry.
It'll mention the Sinestro Corps War stuff, but since he primarily was Crisis, that's where he should go. I mean, the Sinestro stuff got a short paragraph in the effortpost, but that was it,.
Thoughts?
Speaking of Sinestro, I'm not too familiar with the character. Too much of a WIE to count?
Edited by ACW on Dec 31st 2018 at 7:49:41 AM
I don't read comics but just looking at his entry here
shows a number of disqualifying tropes for sinestro.
Edited by papyru30 on Dec 31st 2018 at 5:58:39 AM
ACW, check the Wikipedia page or the characte rpage before that. Sinestro is light years away from a keeper as the most cursory glance would reveal. Loves his daughter, Well-Intentioned Extremist, Even Evil Has Standards, Villainous Friendship and so forth.
Should a mention of the Anti-Monitor go here
as well since he's in it?
I'd say probably. The main entry can go to Crisis on Infinite Earths, and then "see here" for Sinestro Corps.
We also gotta get rid of the GDV for Anti-Monitor. That's gonna be odd; I thought of him as the prototypical GDV, even more so than the trope namer.

Obviously not Gieger, but DOES Willem Dafoe have a CM already?
Also funny enough, Dick Tracy had a Roger Rabbit cartoon play before it in the theater: Roller Coaster Rabbit.