During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@acw: I'll add the Dick Tracy comics to your to do list.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 31st 2018 at 1:04:28 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Hes also John Milton/Satan
I think my yes is more than just tentative now.
Also, I considered doing a hacker from the show Revenge, but her crimes on behalf of the Americon Initiative are only a small cog in the machine. It's a shame that as awful as Americon is with everything they've done that no one individual stands out on their own.
I should also mention Big Boy goes from threatening to trying to apologize to Tracy to then taunting him about what will happen to Tess in one scene. I think it's just his Villainous Breakdown more than anything though.
Honestly, the thing with Mothergod I don't like is, judging from the effortpost, there seems to be an implication of Karmic Rape, which is something I'm not a fan of, at ALL. Seems like a damn good villain either way.
Edited by ACW on Dec 31st 2018 at 5:03:25 AM

I may make this week a Harold Becker-themed week, but we'll see. I think my favorite EP of the year was either Billy Lee or Madison Lee (Nicolas Kudrow and Nikolai Wolf are up there too).
Alright THIS is my final EP of the year and hopefully it goes over way better than Gieger did. Again, the climax of this movie is on New Year's Eve, so it's only all too fitting.
What is the work?
Dick Tracy is a 1990 film adaptation of the comic strip about a 1930s era detective constantly fighting against the mob violence of the city. The movie is well-known for its visually arresting style both costume and set wise, having been directed by Warren Beatty who also stars in the title role. In this movie, Tracy tries to figure out if he can have a true personal life beyond his job while he's trying to keep the mob from taking control of the city.
Who is he and what has he done?
Alphonse "Big Boy" Caprice is one of the most notorious mob bosses in the city. High strung and very ambitious, he starts out by having some of his men brutally shoot a rival gang dead while they're playing cards. After that, he takes rival boss Lips Manlis and Lips' girlfriend Breathless Mahoney hostage and forces Lips to sign over everything he owns (especially his fancy nightclub) to him. Big Boy then has Lips killed by means of a cement bath (locks him in a crate that is filled with cement first and then dropped in the river).
While once or twice hitting Breathless who gets mouthy with him, she's pretty much forced to continue on with Big Boy like nothing happened and not inform anyone of what he did to Lips (especially when Tracy tries to prompt it out of her). Big Boy's plan to take over the entire city by means of uniting all the gangs under him comes into focus. When one mob boss rejects his plan, Big Boy seems to let him and his associates go, but then they're blown up with a car bomb immediately after. Big Boy's emotionless response?: "Very upsetting."
Big Boy attempts to bribe Tracy to join him, but Tracy rejects him. Big Boy's response is to have Tracy tied up in the basement of the empty single building apartment owned by Tracy's girlfriend Tess Trueheart and turn the pressure of the furnace up so that the whole building will eventually implode. Tracy is only saved by The Kid (who has been following him throughout most of the movie after Tracy rescued him) breaking in and cutting the ropes so they can both escape. Big Boy, it turns out, has been able to avoid prosecution for that and other things because he has Fletcher, the DA, in his pocket.
Fletcher is having second thoughts about helping Big Boy because it's getting too difficult, but Big Boy holds him to it. When Tracy bugs the nightclub and begins busting up a bunch of Big Boy's operations around the town, Big Boy finds out and sets a trap. He has the cop who was at the other end of the wiretap be subjected to the same cement bath treatment as Lips (he's saved in time by Tracy though) and only just fails in having Tracy shot because one or two of his men there are shot and killed by an up and coming and literally faceless gangster called The Blank (really Breathless in a mask).
Per Blank's/Breathless' plan, Big Boy has the piano player 88 Keys set up Fletcher to supposedly meet with Tracy, but then he ends up killed by The Blank wearing Tracy's trench coat. They leave an unconscious, but awakening Tracy to take the fall. At the same time, Tess is abducted by Blank/Breathless and locked up in Big Boy's vault in the nightclub to set Big Boy up. She then calls in and informs on Big Boy during his New Year's Eve party (because I haven't hammered that point into the ground enough! Haha).
Tracy is able to prove his innocence and gives chase to Big Boy with Tess still in his possession while the cops deal with and take out the rest of Big Boy's men and arrest 88 Keys. Big Boy puts Tess on a clockwork that is getting closer and closer to smashing her head with every turn. Tracy overcomes Big Boy in a fight, but then Blank/Breathless shows up and still masked, threatens Big Boy when he tries to go after Tracy with a pipe and offers Tracy the chance to take over the city with her if he just kills Big Boy. Tracy calls her bluff though and when Big Boy gets the chance, he shoots and morally wounds Blank/Breathless (still not revealed yet) before Tracy then tackles Big Boy over the railing and causes him to fall to his death.
Heinous standard?
Big Boy has multiple deaths to his name and a few others he attempts to kill too. He has the biggest body count and no one else seems to compare. One of his lieutenants Flattop is particularly blood-hungry, but he and all the others are still looking to Big Boy as their authority figure. It's clear none of them do anything without his approval. The way he has Lips killed is particularly harsh and he tries to do the same to a cop who had bugged him. His goal when he tries to kill Tracy is to make it look like an accident, but he's essentially leaving him tied up in a room with a ticking bomb at the end of the day. Can't say how his actions compare to standard mob villainy, but this is technically a Disney movie released under Touchstone, so take from that what you will. While Big Boy is certainly a Large Ham, he still does pose a legitimate threat. His biggest competition is Blank/Breathless, but she doesn't do nearly enough to match him though. The Kid had a hobo looking after him who abused him, but that's extremely small potatoes.
Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?
While a lot of the people he kills fall under Asshole Victim, it's made clear that Big Boy will go after anyone who gets in his way. The aforementioned cop and what he tries to let happen to Tess. He also abandons his men when he's fleeing for his life with Tess. He tells Tess "Can't you see I love you", but where the FUCK did that come from!? Up until this point, he's had no interactions with her and he's going back and forth between trying to be calm with her and yelling as well. Not to mention that again, the way he's trying to kill her to force Tracy's hand is pretty awful too. It could be chucked up that kidnapping her was a rushed to judgment decision because he was framed for her abduction first, that's harder to say, but he still leaves his men behind to deal with the police after that, not caring who lives or dies on both sides He's kind of roped into being a pawn in Fletcher's death too, but he BELIEVES it's his idea to agree with 88 Keys and his at the time unknown partner and that goes toward Big Boy's motivation and his personality too. it's almost a last resort because he didn't want to trust someone he didn't know, but it's more pragmatism than it is a standard. Before that, he held Fletcher hostage as his informant, insisting: "WHEN YOU ARE DEAD, THEN YOU ARE OUT!" He also only avoids going after Tracy right away because he will instantly be seen as the guilty party if Tracy is killed.
Verdict?
It's a hard one to call, but I will lean towards a very tentative
.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 2nd 2019 at 7:48:59 AM