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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#141901: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:04:54 PM

[tup] Myers, Firefly (Does the comic version count?), Clown, Beldr (never expected a version of fuckin' Baldr to qualify) and Cornelius

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#141903: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:25:35 PM

[tup] Beldr. If you didn't know, he's based on the Norse god Baldur, the closest thing they had to an outright Messianic figure. Wow.

finalsurvivor1 Since: Jan, 2012
#141904: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:31:15 PM

Since I've played the game, I feel comfortable to vocally [tup] manga Beldr. Was not expecting a version of Baldur, even a variation of the already villainous Devil Survivor version, to count.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#141905: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:33:35 PM

[tup] Beldr.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
dood9780 Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World from The Vortex World Since: Mar, 2014
Half-Demon Dude In A Bizarre World
#141907: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:38:42 PM

[tup] to Manga Beldr.

"Death's vastness holds no peace. I come at the end of the long road—neither human, nor devil... All bends to my will." -Demifiend.
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#141908: Dec 30th 2018 at 7:44:23 PM

[tup] Myers, Clown, and Beldr.

Edited by TommyFresh on Dec 30th 2018 at 7:53:50 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#141910: Dec 30th 2018 at 9:04:16 PM

Alright, got another post from a film I just got done watching with Lighty... Vampires: Los Muertos.

What's the setting?

So some of us now John Carpenter's Vampires, a decent vampire flick from 1998 which has its own keeper, Valek... we're not talking about that today. We're talking about the sequel, Los Muertos, direct-to-DVD as I believe... the premise is a vampire hunter, Derek Bliss played by stiff-as-a-board Jon Bovi, takes an assigment which finds himself neck-deep in the slaughter left by a group of vampires seeking the Berzier Cross from the first movie. Joined by a motley crew — one of them played by a young Diego Luna of all people — Derek Bliss fights off against... Una.

Who is Una? What has she done?

A powerful, feared vampire cult leader, Uda is a bloodthirsty, blue-eyed beast of a vampire who leads her ravenous followers in her pursuit of the Berzier Cross, to use it to gain total invulnerability and the ability to live in the sunlight... allowing vampires to terrorize and feast upon humanity as they please. In the pursuit of it? Una leaves behind a lot of blood, opening up the film by horrifically maiming and feasting on a man. After that? Uda rips out the neck of every single person in a diner using Bullet Time while thinking Derek is there, leaving every person in the restaurant to slowly choke to death on their own blood.

Una eventually finds the cross in a monastery... and proceeds to violently massacre every single priest there, decorating their fountain with their mangled remains as a taunt to the heroes. With that, Una gets to work trying to activate the ritual to activate the cross' power, which requires a sacrifice of a priest by burning him alive... the one she burns alive? Doesn't register, and she murders the cook she also kidnapped out of frustration. Additionally? Uda bides some time by massacring a bar full of patrons as well, leaving their slaughtered bodies all over the place.

Eventually, Una seduces and bites one of the heroes to put him under her thrall and take the medicine one of the vampire heroes uses to stay human, allowing her to walk through the sunlight and kidnap said vampire hero for her own design. Una uses her and the lives of the other heroes as a bartering chip for the sole remaining priest from the monastery. Una tries to use him in the ritual, but said "priest" mocks her that he's actually a spy who donned the religious wear when Una massacred the place. Una? Decides to burn him alive out of spite anyways. Eventually, after a long, boring battle with cinematography on par with Blair Witch 2? Una is ripped up into the sunlight with a cord around her neck, her head is blown off by a shotgun while she's being roasted alive, and her still-beating heart is staked.

Because you really, really want to make sure she's dead.

Any mitigating factors?

Nada. Una's got kinda thin characterization but there's enough in the way of motivation, surprising cunning (well, what the film thinks is surprising cunning) and clear intelligence and sadism. She handily makes the heinous standard, and though I admit I don't know much about the third film which I hear has vampires on motorcycles, but against Valek? She clears handily.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 30th 2018 at 10:06:18 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#141911: Dec 30th 2018 at 9:07:11 PM

Yes to the vampire who ends up shot through the heart, giving love a bad name.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#141915: Dec 30th 2018 at 9:47:53 PM

[tup] The One Aka Una.

... If the title was in spanish, that's was her name likely means, Una is The (female) One in spanish

Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 30th 2018 at 12:48:48 PM

Watch me destroying my country
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#141916: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:06:11 PM

Yes to Una. I think that "Mexican vampire hunted by Jon Bon Jovi" is my new favorite type of overly specific Complete Monster.

Edited by FriedWarthog on Dec 30th 2018 at 10:07:48 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#141917: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:12:54 PM

And another unexpected proposal tonight... one from a So Bad, It's Good film I saw a while back before my brother left for China I've talked over with Lighty?

What's the setting?

Phillipe Mora's The Howling II: Your Sister is a Werewolf (or Stirba Werewolf Bitch — you figure that one out) is an... odd entry in the multi-film Howling franchise. Ben White, brother of last movie's Karen White, and Jenny, one of Karen's colleagues, find out Karen... was a werewolf. With the movie's central twist out of the way, Christopher Lee blesses us with his presence and takes Ben and Jenny to Transylvania to find the evil werewolf queen. Hilarity Ensues (unintentional. I think) and soon we get to our titular Werewolf Bitch — Stirba.

Who is Stirba? What has she done?

Stira is the queen of all werewolves (played by actress Sybil Downing, who was kind of treated like shit by the production crew; her contract demanded only one obligatory topless scene, so they played said scene seventeen times in a row in the credits on loop) and the very first and oldest of them... a vicious monster who also happens to be Stefan's (Christopher Lee's character) sister, Stirba has founded an empire of death through her progeny the werewolves, having them spread and slaughter people across the world for nearly 10,000 years. We see a few examples of the very, very regular slaughter her werewolf minions commit in her name (like three knife-wielding punks), all of it to empower the werewolves further... and Stirba, when the tenth millennium of her reign hits, is planning for all werewolves around the world to reveal themselves dark designs on humanity.

Oh, and how has Stirba stayed alive for so long? For ten-thousand years, whenever Stirba's become old and decrepit... Stirba drains the youth of women sacrificed to her, devouring their life energy to replenish her life while killing those she drains as she demonstrates on one unfortunate victims. Stefan? Is determined to finally end the werewolf queen's long reign of terror and goes to a village she and her followers feed on... in Transylvania, armed with garlic and silver bullets (this was clearly a vampire film before it was shoved into The Howling). Stirba? Between werewolf orgies (a regular pastime, apparently) Stirba uses her powers to call into the night and have her werewolves slaughter the heroes coming to her castle, personally using her powers to horribly kill Vasile, a dwarf helping them... agonizingly using his magic on his head until his eyes burst out of his skull. One of the other allies infiltrates her room, and Stirba has her dragon-like pet maul his face to bloody shreds and force its way down his throat, killing him.

Eventually, Stirba has Jenny herself kidnapped, preventing one of her werewolves from raping her and sending him away to be "disciplined" solely so she's not soiled to use as leverage for her real prey, Stefan, her brother. Stirba intends to make Jenny an unwilling werewolf while murdering her brother herself, to seal her rule... trying to seduce him in the climax so she can finally kill him while taunting he could "never resist me." Stefan, though, stabs her with a cross and lights them on fire, holding her close until they both smolder and ending her reign.

Any mitigating factors?

Mmm... the reason I dismissed her out of hand at first is because Stirba isn't quite as direct as many other antagonists in the franchise. I think, though... looking at the pattern that's established, and how long it goes back? Stirba has centuries of feeding on the life energy of women to stay alive while having her werewolf minions slaughter all they can, and it's made clear Stirba and her werewolves have claimed countless lives behind them. That's a lot of bloodshed established for her and it kicks her up higher than I thought, with her serial "draining women to death" thing established with a visible pattern with victims going back ten millennia.

Even outside of that? Stirba does genuinely manages to rack up some pretty awful and visceral personal kills (horrible as the effects are) and shows no real love for her brother in the present day, trying to have him and his friends murdered at any cost. Honestly? I say she cuts, and there's no other redeeming moments she has that isn't brewed up out of pragmatism.

Conclusion?

I'd say... even for Howling, not my worst, but with what we see? I think she counts on second thought.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 30th 2018 at 11:13:19 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#141918: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:16:32 PM

[tup] Una and Stirba. Funny, I was just reading about the making of Howling 2.

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#141920: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:17:58 PM

[tup] to stirba.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#141921: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:34:37 PM

Well, after the new World of Warcraft expanion proved a bust, I've been playing it Spiritual Successor Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2. I was quite shocked when I found out neither game had any candidates, though I chock that up more to no one on this subforum having played them than a lack of candidates. That's because I found many candidates over the course of both games, not necessarily sure on all of them but I've found them to be worth discussion. Over the new few weeks or couple of months, I'll be proposing 3 from the first game and 6 from the second for a total of nine across the franchise.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#141922: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:41:48 PM

@Lore Deluxe iirc, one of the users propose Palawa Joko from Guild Wars 2. You want to do a re-ep on him again?

Also yes to all the candidates that I missed.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#141923: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:44:02 PM

[tup] Stirba

And...You would believe that I wanna do a Slendytubbies EP? Sadly Innocent Day's already passed because....

Honestly, the whole setting is a ridiculous parody, yet it treats itself seriously and the candidate really do have the feats.

[down] Thanks for solving my small internal conflict

Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 30th 2018 at 2:04:36 PM

Watch me destroying my country
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#141924: Dec 30th 2018 at 10:58:55 PM

We're not putting up anyone from something called Slendytubbies. I struggle to see why that has to be said.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#141925: Dec 30th 2018 at 11:02:33 PM

[up][up][up]Palawa Joko is one of the unambiguous keepers from that game. The original troper really never even did a proper effort post, so discussion never went anywhere. I'll get to the Guild Wars 2 candidates later on however.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.

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