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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#140351: Dec 18th 2018 at 3:55:02 PM

Cut the farmer and frankly I'm a little irritated he went up at all after myself and others made these exact concerns quite clear during the initial discussion.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#140352: Dec 18th 2018 at 3:57:58 PM

I've already cut him from the YMMV tab.

Help me!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#140353: Dec 18th 2018 at 3:59:48 PM

We'll need to file a cut to the edit requests thread to strip him from the Literature page if he's on there.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#140354: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:10:53 PM

I'll file that request in the morning, but should it be like this?

  • Grizzly Tales for Gruesome Kids: Prince Egor, from "The Black Knight", is an evil knight known for his evil deeds in battle. When he hears that its king is dead, he invades the country of Ruritania, steals the crown, and subjects its people to endless misery. He steals all the wealth and possessions, forces everyone to worship him, kills all the animals and burns all the crops, leaving his subjects with nothing to eat and beheads anyone who speaks out against him. Not even children are safe, as they are put in service of the Black Knight.

Or like this?

  • "The Black Knight": Prince Egor is an evil knight known for his evil deeds in battle. When he hears that its king is dead, he invades the country of Ruritania, steals the crown, and subjects its people to endless misery. He steals all the wealth and possessions, forces everyone to worship him, kills all the animals and burns all the crops, leaving his subjects with nothing to eat and beheads anyone who speaks out against him. Not even children are safe, as they are put in service of the Black Knight.

Edited by ACW on Dec 18th 2018 at 7:11:03 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#140356: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:17:59 PM

Screw it, I just did it now.

Also, I'm working on Cartoon Network: Any trope for Helga Von Guggen's name? And does this need to be so long?

  • Vilgax, the Overarching Villain of the entire franchise and by far Ben Tennyson's most personal enemy, is a psychopathic galactic warlord. After his evil caused him to be banished from his homeworld, Vilgax went on to assault and conquer numerous planets across the cosmos, outright annihilating the entire planet of Petropia and its billions of inhabitants to make an example of those who resist him. After discovering the existence of the Omnitrix, Vilgax becomes obsessed with possessing the gadget to modify it for his own gain, and spends much of the first series sending wave after wave of his forces to Earth solely to kill Ben Tennyson, a 10-year-old-boy, and steal the watch from him, later trying to viciously saw the boy's arm off and blow up the entire Earth for the trouble it has caused him. In Alien Force, Vilgax builds up his image as a law-abiding citizen by "legally" conquering 10 planets, though ultimately ditches this persona and tries to use the Omnitrix to lead a full-scale war against all who would stand against him. In Ultimate Alien, Vilgax becomes the herald for Diagon before betraying and killing his master and stealing his power, hoping to use it to mind control all life in the universe. In the final series, Omniverse, Vilgax, though at first seeming to have decayed in his evil, pulls out perhaps the most wicked scheme in the entire franchise, using a Chronosapien Time Bomb to wipe out all dimensions and timelines, his own included, to leave only a single, more submissive universe for him to conquer and rule. Vilgax was a purely evil madman who would kill first billions, then insurmountable trillions, just to satisfy his raging desire to be the most powerful being in the universe, and stands out as the most iconic villain in Ben 10 for this very reason.

Edited by ACW on Dec 18th 2018 at 7:19:09 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#140357: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:22:50 PM

Well, Vilgax appears frequently...so...

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#140358: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:26:43 PM

Oh, I'm aware of that, but 300+ words frequently? I mean, if nobody else has an issue with it, I'll just de-pothole that one (since it DOES need de-potholing).

Edited by ACW on Dec 18th 2018 at 7:27:17 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140359: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:29:14 PM

Perhaps split it into a few Write ups for his particularly bad actions? Like we did with Palpatine or Michael Myers.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 18th 2018 at 4:31:19 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#140360: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:35:56 PM

Yep. Nothing saying we can't do it like Flagg or Palpatine to cut him down to size there by appearances.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140362: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:47:22 PM

Thanks Scraggle.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#140363: Dec 18th 2018 at 4:50:01 PM

Sure on Conrad.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#140364: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:01:40 PM

Cut the Farmer. Is there a convincing argumemt for the Prince to stay? To be frank, this doesn't really sound like a setting conductive of a CM.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140365: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:03:17 PM

His actions had nothing to do with karma and seems to be a rather obvious villain. And if his write up is any indication he easily crosses baseline.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 18th 2018 at 5:03:41 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#140366: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:03:38 PM

There aren't any other cases in the books or television series like him. He's an exception.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#140367: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:09:01 PM

ACW, if the 300+ is the issue, just cut off his last sentence after "most powerful being in the universe" otherwise split up the entry as others have suggested. Also does Helga need a pothole for her name? I could never really grasp the need for the names to always be blue for you.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#140368: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:14:56 PM

I remember back when the pothole for Lotten's name was Jerkass. Pretty huge sign that there are times we stretch for potholes.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#140369: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:18:07 PM

Oh, we seem to do backflips to awkwardly cram them in [lol]

For real, which of these looks more intuitive:

or:

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#140370: Dec 18th 2018 at 5:55:40 PM

Yes to all the candidates I missed. Also cut farmer.

Anyway here are my Phantom write ups:

  • The Phantom: From the short lived DC comics series from 1989, this darker take on the Phantom had quite few nasty villains:
    • Adix from the issue 3 story Pirates is a modern day pirate who uses an armed ship to board civilian boats off the coast of Bangalla. Adix would kidnap the rich male and female passengers aboard these ships and would order his crew everyone else on board. Adix would then take his hostages to his ship and keep them in his hold, where he would torture the male hostages for information and would rape the female hostages. In contrast with romanticized pirates, Adix is a repulsive psychopath with no code of honor.
    • Ansah from the issue 11 story Blind is an enterprising criminal who learns of an African village struck by a disease that causes blindness. Ansah bribes a doctor who was taking care of this village to give him information on them and then he and his gang kidnap everyone in the village, including the women and the children. Ansah then enslaves the villagers, forcing them to work in a giant rice field. After the villagers gather enough rice for him to bring to market, Ansah plans to kill the villagers. After the Phantom thwarts that scheme, Ansah takes a villager hostage. After this cowardly act, Phantom asks Ansah what kind of man he is, Ansah justifies himself by saying the strong have the right to victimize the weak.

Edited by Overlord on Dec 18th 2018 at 6:19:03 AM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#140371: Dec 18th 2018 at 7:20:25 PM

Can someone delete the Bravely Default, Bravely Second, and Octopath Traveler examples from Monster.Final Fantasy? I asked on ATT and none of those are FF games, so they shouldn't be there, but the page is locked so i can't delete the examples.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#140372: Dec 18th 2018 at 7:22:15 PM

So people seem to periodically screw with Nitti's entry on The Untouchables' YMMV page. Here's the one from the Monster.Film S To Z page:

  • The Untouchables presents Frank Nitti as a Psycho for Hire for Al Capone. Introduced early on as Capone's main enforcer and hitman, Nitti is seen bombing a restaurant with a little girl inside, not caring that she's killed as well. Through the film, Nitti handles Capone's wetwork, ruthlessly murdering anyone in his way with barely disguised relish, slaughtering two policemen on The Untouchables squad and writing "touchable" on the wall in their blood, and later gunning down tough Irish cop Malone. He threatens Elliot Ness's family if he won't drop his case. Nitti later tries to rub his own status as untouchable in Ness's face, even taunting him that Malone "died screaming like a stuck Irish Pig," which finally makes even the composed Ness snap.

and from the YMMV:

  • Complete Monster: Frank Nitti is presented as a Psycho for Hire for Al Capone. Introduced early on as Capone's main enforcer and hitman, Nitti is seen bombing a restaurant with a little girl inside, not caring that she's killed as well. Through the film, Nitti handles Capone's wetwork, ruthlessly murdering anyone in his way with barely disguised relish, continuing to eat his meal even as the man right next to him is having his brains bashed out by Capone, slaughtering both Oscar Wallace and the Capone man apprehended by the squad and writing "touchable" on the wall in their blood, and later gunning down tough Irish cop Malone. He threatens Elliot Ness's family if he won't drop his case. Nitti later tries to rub his own status as untouchable in Ness's face, even taunting him that Malone "died screaming like a stuck Irish pig," which finally makes even the composed Ness snap (leading Ness to throw Nitti off the roof, with Ness taunting Nitti as he falls screaming to his death).

I far prefer the one from the locked page and other than fixing it so it flows in the usual [Work] [colon] [entry], instead of the current [Work] [presents entry] I think we can just restore.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#140373: Dec 18th 2018 at 7:28:19 PM

Why are all the Complete Monster pages locked?

Help me!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#140374: Dec 18th 2018 at 7:33:55 PM

Constant misuse, acknowledged process we use here getting ignored unless its enforced, only real way to get a cleanup done is by stopping randoms from constantly screwing with the pages, etc.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#140375: Dec 18th 2018 at 7:40:53 PM

  • Frightmare (1983): Conrad Radzoff is a horror actor with a penchant for Disproportionate Retribution. When filming a commercial, he pushes the director off a balcony for criticizing his performance. When he falls ill, he smothers his agent with a pillow before dying. He's resurrected by Black Magic after his body is stolen by a group of drunken fans, and proceeds to murder them one by one. He ises such brutal methods as burning them alive and slowly crushing them with his coffin. After cremating one of his victims, his wife comes to rob his body, so he suffocates her with a wad of money and implies that he'll rape her in Hell.


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