During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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Thats fine. We could just do it on Monday when your free. How many entries for this week ?
That episode is really memorable. It's says alot that everyone who watched it her remebers it.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:07:28 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Heh, yeah, I remember when I was surprised that we had 20 one week
These sections didn't have many quotes, so I'll take care of them now.
- Music:
Dawn was easy, she was drowned in the bath
Eziah fought but was easily bested
Burned his body for incurring my wrath
Alright, alright, alright
- Tabletop Games (Incidentally, if 40k gets its own page eventually, or Warhammer does, Valkia's quote will work great either as a replacement or as a quote for the Warhammer page):
- Visual Novels:
Nafumi: Yes I will. He was a stupid kid. He should have been a doll. A doll that only I could look at and only I could play with.
Higanbana: You are the epitome of selfishness. He showed his affection for you and sacrificed his body for your desires until he couldn't take it anymore... and you're not even the least bit sorry?
Nafumi: Ufufufu. UFUFUFUFU! Of course I'm not! I'm the queen bee!! The other bees show their affection to me and I will enjoy their honey! I AM the queen of this art room! It should be an honor to serve me! Those who don't feel honored are fools who need to know their place!!! Am I sorry for Yuuki-kun? Not even in the slightest!
- Webcomics:
- Other Media:
Edited by ACW on Dec 8th 2018 at 3:26:58 PM
Boast about one murder. It arguably fits better Card-Carrying Villain.
Basically threatens one person.
Out of context, the quote doesn't say how many people are being executed.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Dec 8th 2018 at 9:39:08 PM
Man, I swear this thread's becoming too fast for me to catch up...
Hongqi sounds like a keep, so do Dr. Page/Mengtzer and O'Reilly. Joseph? Saying no. It's the equivalent of qualifying a villain on the basis of an Easter Egg — the old screenplay I put up Milo is, at the least, sufficiently viable media in its own right.
Adventure!Archie doesn't qualify on the basis of literally being driven insane, if I recall correctly (a shame, because he's truly pretty awful) and having a redemption in the ORAS chapter.
O'Reilly and Hongqi
Joseph
Found this a YMMV.Let The Galaxy Burn.
- Complete Monster: Given that this is A Song of Ice and Fire, this trope is a given.
- Arthur Dayne, once considered the perfect knight, began his fall from grace by helping Rhaegar kidnap and rape Lyanna Stark. He followed this deed up by taking his newborn niece away from his sister (who he is hinted to have killed) so that her life could be used to convince Eddard Stark to make peace. Really, his casual murder of a Dornish diplomat is just one more example of how he has shit for honor.
- Rhaegar Targaryen started out as an kidnapper and rapist who treats his allies like shit. His victory in Robert's Rebellion is followed by a descent into madness that rivals, if not surpasses, his father and is topped by his attempt to hatch dragon eggs by slaughtering and mutilating untold numbers of loyalists in the throne room.
Dayne seems lacking in heinousness, but Rhaegar sounds like an easy keep.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Dec 8th 2018 at 2:02:33 AM
- Time Bomb, by Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti: Gerhard Metzger is a Nazi scientist who seeks to avert Nazi Germany's defeat by any means necessary. Changing his name to David Page after Nazi Germany's fall, Metzger constructed the Time Bomb for the purpose of returning to the past during the final months of the war, hoping to ensure Nazi Germany's victory by deploying their ultimate super-weapon, the Omega bomb. When released, the bomb will wipe out all of humanity in a matter of days, leaving only the Nazis safely hidden underground to survive to reclaim the Earth. Metzger coldly uses prisoners as test subjects for the bomb's effects, and disregards even his own Allies who won't make it to the underground shelter in time, dismissing them as merely a small price to pay for 'the greater good'.
@Duck
Seems to be a case of Adaptational Villainy and Ron the Death Eater. I can see it playing well as a.Alternative Character Interpretation. Rhaegar canonically was more moral, but eh.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 8th 2018 at 5:16:37 AM
Watch me destroying my countryI don't know what to make of Targaryen and Dayne.
Also for those wondering, the other two I thought of revisiting but didn't was
1. The Arrival!Slenderman since he actually displays personality and dialogue that isn't brought up the last two times he was EP'd, but I don't think those would be good enough arguments.
2. The other was Bloodline!Pinhead who after checking him out, I'm open to discussion but a few of my standards preclude me from bringing him up myself; that he was already brought of three times, the interquels are still a problem (and Fanon Discontinuity isn't a solution in my eyes - when I looked into it, only two of those films fall into Canon Discontinuty status) and I'd feel like a hypocrite if I was the one to do it since I was especially since I was probably the most vocal out of him not counting (I always felt a CM Pinhead took away his complexity, still do a little).
Edited by Beast on Dec 9th 2018 at 10:01:08 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."I hate to add another Goosebumps example, but I still think this is worth a look, and we might be in need of a sub-page soon.
Attack of the Mutant is a bizarre 1997 Dreamworks cel-shaded game based on the Goosebumps book of the same name. Like the book, the Masked Mutant is the main villain, but he gets to do a bit more than his book counterpart.
What does he do?
The Mutant is introduced as the Arch-Enemy of the creatively named "League of Good Guys", voiced by none other than James Belushi. He assembles his minions Root Rot, Pinky Flamingo, and Molecule Man(no relation to Marvel's), and sends them to hunt down and destroy you, the Player Character, when he realizes you've found his lair. Throughout most of the game, you have to avoid these villains and their traps, all while helping the other heroes who have entered his lair.
Much later, it's shown that Molecule Man has had reservations about working for the Mutant. He saves the Galloping Gazelle from his boss when the Mutant attacks him in the form of a panther. Later, after you accidentally free Chin-Chilla, the Masked Mutant's frost wielding henchwoman, from a comic book, she "blasts you out of this world" and you find Molecule Man in two floating molecule bunches, apparently due to the Mutant splitting his atoms as punishment for betrayal.
Oh, he's fine when you pull him together, but that can't be pleasant to experience for long. Even later, you stumble across two other kids, or what's left of them. The Mutant had tested his latest weapon, a device that converts objects and people to drawings(similar to the "scanner" from the book, but with more disturbing effects). Remember what Freddy did to Mark in Elm Street 5? Yeah.
When Molecule Man joins your league, he informs the heroes of the Mutant's true plan. The two kids you found are just a demonstration of what's to come. The Mutant is going to transmit this machine across the entire earth, turning the planet into a lifeless comic world that he can rule as he pleases.
Of course, the Final Boss is the Mutant himself, where you have to destroy his ray and defeat him. The ending depends on your success. Should you win, he shrinks away crying like the crazed manbaby he is. Should you lose, the scene cuts to a desert, apparently what's left of the real world, as a comic book, presumably containing the world the Mutant wanted to create, sits atop a pile of discarded superhero costumes, including yours. The Mutant, no joke, can be heard gloating how he's killed all his enemies: "I'm the Winner, You're the Loser! HA,HA,HA!" Whoa.
Redeeming Qualities?
He does help out his fellow villains when the heroes have the upper hand. Otherwise, no. He seems to mostly value them for how vicious and competent they are, as shown in his opening argument with Molecule Man. Over the course of the game, they die horribly at your hands. He doesn't shed a tear for them, and given what he did when Molecule Man joined the League, he has no problem torturing or destroying them if they stray from villainy.
Heinousness Standard
There are other villains in the game, obviously, but they're just underlings for him. By a franchise margin, I can't think of any Goosebumps villain who's actually tried to destroy the planet, least of all inflict an And I Must Scream on the world's population.
He's also a lot more overtly villainous than he was in the (admittedly shorter) book. The Mutant in the original was a nasty piece of work, but he didn't really menace anyone outside of Skipper and a few other heroes and villains. If you take some of his comments for truth, he doesn't have much moral agency either-like most Goosebumps monsters, he's a slave to his own inhuman nature. This version has no problem hurting innocent kids who stumble onto his lair, threatens the world at large, and likely doesn't have Blue-and-Orange Morality as an excuse, since Molecule Man, another mutant supervillain, chooses to do the right thing and help save the world.
As for limiting factors, well...the game is goofy. About as dumb, Narmy, and ham-boned as a 90s kids game can be. There's cartoon sound-effects everywhere. A Rock-themed superhero ha Classical Music as a weakness. Both heroes and villains treat the backdrops like chewing gum.
See for yourself here
.
Conclusion
While the tone of the game could be a mitigating factor, i'd say this version of the Mutant is a classic case of Vile Villain, Saccharine Show.
All witches, all skeletons, all jack O Lanterns, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch...watch the magic pumpkin, Watch...

@acw: Could you bring the various quotes here in batches so we can see which to keep or cut
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."