TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139226: Dec 8th 2018 at 11:52:14 AM

@acw: Could you bring the various quotes here in batches so we can see which to keep or cut

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#139227: Dec 8th 2018 at 11:56:05 AM

I'm about to head out, and tomorrow besides finishing up the week's batch it's NFL Sunday.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#139228: Dec 8th 2018 at 11:59:41 AM

I've just watched the Togepi episode to be sure... yeah [tdown]

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139229: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:04:04 PM

[up][up]Thats fine. We could just do it on Monday when your free. How many entries for this week ?

[up]That episode is really memorable. It's says alot that everyone who watched it her remebers it.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:07:28 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139231: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:13:50 PM

Seems to be the average now days. Weirdly tgere was a time way back in the day when even 12 a week was considered a decent batch. Things have changed alot

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#139232: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:21:35 PM

Heh, yeah, I remember when I was surprised that we had 20 one week [lol]

These sections didn't have many quotes, so I'll take care of them now.

  • Music:
Charlotte I buried after feeding her foxglove
Dawn was easy, she was drowned in the bath
Eziah fought but was easily bested
Burned his body for incurring my wrath
Alright, alright, alright
The Rake describing how he murdered his own children, The Decemberists, "The Rake's Song"

  • Tabletop Games (Incidentally, if 40k gets its own page eventually, or Warhammer does, Valkia's quote will work great either as a replacement or as a quote for the Warhammer page):
"Do you think I care that the soulstuff I consume creates a void of life in the multiverse? Nay, for I have become the ultimate predator! The lives I consume are pure and untainted by incarnation, and my meals are all the sweeter for it!"
Ashardalon, Dungeons & Dragons, The Bastion Of Broken Souls

The gods of Amonkhet roared and cursed, but no blow from their weapons would land. The trespasser's power was at least equal to their own. The dragon landed atop the tallest tower, closed his eyes, and began to channel a spell. The time for violent choices had come. The gods felt a surge of mana weave around the dragon as a tangle of malevolence. They grasped desperately for spells to protect and defend. But they were too slow. The dragon opened his eyes and every mortal old enough to walk dissipated into the sky. A brilliant white light engulfed Naktamun, and the seven gods fell to their knees in agony as countless souls vanished from existence.
Nicol Bolas conquers the plane of Amonkhet in a single moment, Magic: The Gathering

Born of tainted womb and dragon lust, the Beast did crawl forth, shrieking and spitting lightning and eating of its week-dead parent's flesh. Blood-born and twisted, terrible and enraged, even the promised centuries of cruelties and slaughter would never quell the shattered paragon's bloodlust. And the Lord of Agonies smiled. Here was his will made flesh. And so he gifted the Beast with two natures, to spread terror and pain, shadow and suffering in mortal guise, mortal cunning in dragon form, this despoiler, this abomination, this Beast called Kazavon.
— "The Seventh Chronicle of Saint Ferais, Dragon Slayer", Pathfinder

"I am the harbinger of your demise. I am the nightmare in all mortals. I am the thing you fear the most. I am death."
Valkia the Bloody, Warhammer

  • Visual Novels:
"I killed a man named 'Smith' with a bottle because I am an evil human being. Isn't that enough?"
Kristoph Gavin, Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, Episode 4: "Turnabout Succession"

Makoto: You sacrificed your own sister....How does that not even bother you?!
Junko: What? I sacrificed her? That's what got you so hot under the collar? Jeez, Misunderstandings sure are scary! We were The Ultimate Despair, You know? So we never had any kind of hope, or expectations. No, I've felt despair as long I could remember, like I never should have been born at all. When I was born, I cried tears of total despair. So that's why for us, it's not a big deal whether we die or kill! We're just those kinds of people. We can do anything!
Aoi: So you just murdered your own sister, and didn't think anything of it?
Junko: ("Sad" Junko) That's not true at all... We were twins. How could I not be sad? That's why it gets me...so excited. Its like super super super super super super despair. No, more than that. It just feels...so...good...
Byakyua: I knew you couldn't be some ordinary person. You're some kind of.... abnormality.
Kyoko: Turning your own despair into some kind of fetish... abnormality doesn't even begin to describe it.
Junko: ("Monokuma" Junko) All i want is despair. And there's no reason for it. And since there's no reason, there's no argument against it. There's just no understanding it. What better definition of the ultimate despair could there be?!

Higanbana: You're going to call that boy who you treated so horribly as your plaything a "stupid kid"?
Nafumi: Yes I will. He was a stupid kid. He should have been a doll. A doll that only I could look at and only I could play with.
Higanbana: You are the epitome of selfishness. He showed his affection for you and sacrificed his body for your desires until he couldn't take it anymore... and you're not even the least bit sorry?
Nafumi: Ufufufu. UFUFUFUFU! Of course I'm not! I'm the queen bee!! The other bees show their affection to me and I will enjoy their honey! I AM the queen of this art room! It should be an honor to serve me! Those who don't feel honored are fools who need to know their place!!! Am I sorry for Yuuki-kun? Not even in the slightest!

"I would have rather she died with less suffering... A bullet in her brain, perhaps, would have been ideal. Unfortunately, that would have made quite a bit of noise. Circumstances being what they were, I was forced to settle for the knife. The one the 9th Man had, you remember? I believe I caught her just below the shoulder blade. I was rather lucky, in fact. My first thrust went right between her ribs. Her flesh was so soft. My knife slid in so easily... There was no resistance. That feeling was... I confess, I feel rather excited. It is a... powerful memory. Someday, perhaps, I hope I can feel it again."
Gentarou Hongou recalling his murder of Clover, Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors

"Now hear me, you useless lawyer. Cease this charade and bow before me. For I, Queen Ga'ran, shall finally have your head!"

  • Webcomics:
"Sarghress, you misunderstood me. This is not a negotiation. This is an execution.
Snadhya'rune while forcing Erelice to watch her squad get killed, Drowtales

  • Other Media:
"There is a certain people scattered and separated among the peoples in all the provinces of your kingdom; their laws are different from those of every other people, and they do not keep the king's laws, so that it is not appropriate for the king to tolerate them. If it pleases the king, let a decree be issued for their destruction, and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver into the hands of those who have charge of the king's business, so that they may put it into the king's treasuries."
Haman, Book of Esther

"Tarkin, if ever there was a shred of humanity in you or these twisted creatures of yours, it's dead now. You're at war with life itself."
Princess Leia Organa, from the Star Wars Radio Dramas, after Grand Moff Tarkin wipes out her home planet

Edited by ACW on Dec 8th 2018 at 3:26:58 PM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#139233: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:26:35 PM

"I killed a man named 'Smith' with a bottle because I am an evil human being. Isn't that enough?"
Kristoph Gavin, Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney, Episode 4: "Turnabout Succession"

Boast about one murder. It arguably fits better Card-Carrying Villain.

"Now hear me, you useless lawyer. Cease this charade and bow before me. For I, Queen Ga'ran, shall finally have your head!"

Basically threatens one person.

"Sarghress, you misunderstood me. This is not a negotiation. This is an execution.
Snadhya'rune while forcing Erelice to watch her squad get killed, Drowtales

Out of context, the quote doesn't say how many people are being executed.

Edited by Silverblade2 on Dec 8th 2018 at 9:39:08 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#139234: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:29:53 PM

For the Rake, the description says it describes murdering his own kids, but I'm not sure the quote on its own is enough; I could go either way.

The Tabletop Games and Other Media quotes are all fine to me.

Edited by ACW on Dec 8th 2018 at 3:30:31 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#139235: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:37:00 PM

Man, I swear this thread's becoming too fast for me to catch up...

Hongqi sounds like a keep, so do Dr. Page/Mengtzer and O'Reilly. Joseph? Saying no. It's the equivalent of qualifying a villain on the basis of an Easter Egg — the old screenplay I put up Milo is, at the least, sufficiently viable media in its own right.

Adventure!Archie doesn't qualify on the basis of literally being driven insane, if I recall correctly (a shame, because he's truly pretty awful) and having a redemption in the ORAS chapter.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#139236: Dec 8th 2018 at 12:58:39 PM

Hey, there's a new Ghost in the Shell anime coming in 2020. Not gonna call it since I'm not the biggest fan of the series, but it's up for grabs.

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#139238: Dec 8th 2018 at 1:40:01 PM

[tup] O'Reilly and Hongqi

[tdown] Joseph

Found this a YMMV.Let The Galaxy Burn.

  • Complete Monster: Given that this is A Song of Ice and Fire, this trope is a given.
    • Arthur Dayne, once considered the perfect knight, began his fall from grace by helping Rhaegar kidnap and rape Lyanna Stark. He followed this deed up by taking his newborn niece away from his sister (who he is hinted to have killed) so that her life could be used to convince Eddard Stark to make peace. Really, his casual murder of a Dornish diplomat is just one more example of how he has shit for honor.
    • Rhaegar Targaryen started out as an kidnapper and rapist who treats his allies like shit. His victory in Robert's Rebellion is followed by a descent into madness that rivals, if not surpasses, his father and is topped by his attempt to hatch dragon eggs by slaughtering and mutilating untold numbers of loyalists in the throne room.

Dayne seems lacking in heinousness, but Rhaegar sounds like an easy keep.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Dec 8th 2018 at 2:02:33 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#139239: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:15:49 PM

  • Time Bomb, by Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti: Gerhard Metzger is a Nazi scientist who seeks to avert Nazi Germany's defeat by any means necessary. Changing his name to David Page after Nazi Germany's fall, Metzger constructed the Time Bomb for the purpose of returning to the past during the final months of the war, hoping to ensure Nazi Germany's victory by deploying their ultimate super-weapon, the Omega bomb. When released, the bomb will wipe out all of humanity in a matter of days, leaving only the Nazis safely hidden underground to survive to reclaim the Earth. Metzger coldly uses prisoners as test subjects for the bomb's effects, and disregards even his own Allies who won't make it to the underground shelter in time, dismissing them as merely a small price to pay for 'the greater good'.

Why so serious?
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#139240: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:15:58 PM

I may have one more EP coming before Monday.

What’s the biggest batch number we’ve ever had?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#139241: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:16:16 PM

@Duck

Seems to be a case of Adaptational Villainy and Ron the Death Eater. I can see it playing well as a.Alternative Character Interpretation. Rhaegar canonically was more moral, but eh.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 8th 2018 at 5:16:37 AM

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#139242: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:53:08 PM

It falls under the "clear AU" rule, due to being ASOIAF in space.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#139243: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:55:04 PM

I don't know what to make of Targaryen and Dayne.

Also for those wondering, the other two I thought of revisiting but didn't was

1. The Arrival!Slenderman since he actually displays personality and dialogue that isn't brought up the last two times he was EP'd, but I don't think those would be good enough arguments.

2. The other was Bloodline!Pinhead who after checking him out, I'm open to discussion but a few of my standards preclude me from bringing him up myself; that he was already brought of three times, the interquels are still a problem (and Fanon Discontinuity isn't a solution in my eyes - when I looked into it, only two of those films fall into Canon Discontinuty status) and I'd feel like a hypocrite if I was the one to do it since I was especially since I was probably the most vocal out of him not counting (I always felt a CM Pinhead took away his complexity, still do a little).

Edited by Beast on Dec 9th 2018 at 10:01:08 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139244: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:57:06 PM

@Future: The biggest batch was around 60 which is Damn impressive

Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 2:57:22 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Snailfish Silver Shamrock's Halloween three from Santa Mira, California Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Silver Shamrock's Halloween three
#139246: Dec 8th 2018 at 3:18:17 PM

I hate to add another Goosebumps example, but I still think this is worth a look, and we might be in need of a sub-page soon.

Attack of the Mutant is a bizarre 1997 Dreamworks cel-shaded game based on the Goosebumps book of the same name. Like the book, the Masked Mutant is the main villain, but he gets to do a bit more than his book counterpart.

What does he do?

The Mutant is introduced as the Arch-Enemy of the creatively named "League of Good Guys", voiced by none other than James Belushi. He assembles his minions Root Rot, Pinky Flamingo, and Molecule Man(no relation to Marvel's), and sends them to hunt down and destroy you, the Player Character, when he realizes you've found his lair. Throughout most of the game, you have to avoid these villains and their traps, all while helping the other heroes who have entered his lair.

Much later, it's shown that Molecule Man has had reservations about working for the Mutant. He saves the Galloping Gazelle from his boss when the Mutant attacks him in the form of a panther. Later, after you accidentally free Chin-Chilla, the Masked Mutant's frost wielding henchwoman, from a comic book, she "blasts you out of this world" and you find Molecule Man in two floating molecule bunches, apparently due to the Mutant splitting his atoms as punishment for betrayal.

Oh, he's fine when you pull him together, but that can't be pleasant to experience for long. Even later, you stumble across two other kids, or what's left of them. The Mutant had tested his latest weapon, a device that converts objects and people to drawings(similar to the "scanner" from the book, but with more disturbing effects). Remember what Freddy did to Mark in Elm Street 5? Yeah.

When Molecule Man joins your league, he informs the heroes of the Mutant's true plan. The two kids you found are just a demonstration of what's to come. The Mutant is going to transmit this machine across the entire earth, turning the planet into a lifeless comic world that he can rule as he pleases.

Of course, the Final Boss is the Mutant himself, where you have to destroy his ray and defeat him. The ending depends on your success. Should you win, he shrinks away crying like the crazed manbaby he is. Should you lose, the scene cuts to a desert, apparently what's left of the real world, as a comic book, presumably containing the world the Mutant wanted to create, sits atop a pile of discarded superhero costumes, including yours. The Mutant, no joke, can be heard gloating how he's killed all his enemies: "I'm the Winner, You're the Loser! HA,HA,HA!" Whoa.

Redeeming Qualities?

He does help out his fellow villains when the heroes have the upper hand. Otherwise, no. He seems to mostly value them for how vicious and competent they are, as shown in his opening argument with Molecule Man. Over the course of the game, they die horribly at your hands. He doesn't shed a tear for them, and given what he did when Molecule Man joined the League, he has no problem torturing or destroying them if they stray from villainy.

Heinousness Standard

There are other villains in the game, obviously, but they're just underlings for him. By a franchise margin, I can't think of any Goosebumps villain who's actually tried to destroy the planet, least of all inflict an And I Must Scream on the world's population.

He's also a lot more overtly villainous than he was in the (admittedly shorter) book. The Mutant in the original was a nasty piece of work, but he didn't really menace anyone outside of Skipper and a few other heroes and villains. If you take some of his comments for truth, he doesn't have much moral agency either-like most Goosebumps monsters, he's a slave to his own inhuman nature. This version has no problem hurting innocent kids who stumble onto his lair, threatens the world at large, and likely doesn't have Blue-and-Orange Morality as an excuse, since Molecule Man, another mutant supervillain, chooses to do the right thing and help save the world.

As for limiting factors, well...the game is goofy. About as dumb, Narmy, and ham-boned as a 90s kids game can be. There's cartoon sound-effects everywhere. A Rock-themed superhero ha Classical Music as a weakness. Both heroes and villains treat the backdrops like chewing gum. See for yourself here.

Conclusion

While the tone of the game could be a mitigating factor, i'd say this version of the Mutant is a classic case of Vile Villain, Saccharine Show.

All witches, all skeletons, all jack O Lanterns, gather round your TV set, put on your masks, and watch...watch the magic pumpkin, Watch...
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#139247: Dec 8th 2018 at 3:27:37 PM

Hm... Gonna hold off on the Mutant until others comment.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#139248: Dec 8th 2018 at 4:10:45 PM

Abstain on the mutant

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#139249: Dec 8th 2018 at 4:19:55 PM

He sounds pretty nasty, so [tup]note .

Help me!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#139250: Dec 8th 2018 at 4:32:17 PM

Count me as abstain.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

Total posts: 326,048
Top