During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
So, this then?
- Complete Monster: Lord Archibald Benton is the governor of the Hudson Bay Company and seeks to dominate the fur trade. To this end, he arrests his predecessor on trumped-up charges and has him murdered before ruling the local town like a tyrant, antagonizing the local Cree peoples. Benton initiates a string of murders and torture to set the Lakewalker Cree against the French-Canadians in a war to wipe out or weaken them so he can take control of the trade. Upon capturing his arch-nemesis Declan Harp, whose family he tortured and killed, and is later revealed to have sold Harp's son into slavery, Benton tortures him, mocking him the whole while before attempting to have him executed. When his own superiors send soldiers to deal with him, Benton sequesters and attempts to starve them to death, showing his only allegiances are to his own ambition.
Edited by ACW on Dec 8th 2018 at 1:28:27 PM
Oh right I asked this before but didn't get a response.
Has Javier Mendoza from Blood Books ever been brought up before ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Sure I'm fine with that. I think the Big Bad of first book in that series is worth a look as well. He was a Serial Killer who wanted to bring about Hell on Earth
Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 10:14:27 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."So, this then?
- Complete Monster: Lord Archibald Benton is the governor of the Hudson Bay Company and seeks to dominate the fur trade. To this end, he arrests his predecessor on trumped-up charges and has him murdered before ruling the local town like a tyrant, antagonizing the local Cree peoples. Benton initiates a string of murders and torture to set the Lakewalker Cree against the French-Canadians in a war to wipe out or weaken them so he can take control of the trade. Upon capturing his arch-nemesis Declan Harp, whose family he tortured and killed, and is later revealed to have sold Harp's son into slavery, Benton tortures him, mocking him the whole while before attempting to have him executed. When his own superiors send soldiers to deal with him, Benton sequesters and attempts to starve them to death, showing his only allegiances are to his own ambition.
Alright so I was meaning to ask but acw could we do a check of Complete Monster Quotes ? I don't like a few of them and they've come up before. Plus we're not busy now. So it wouldn't hurt to check them now.
Okay guys I should note that were not supposed to trope a work that isn't released to the public like with Joseph. So I have to ask ? This was never actually created or officially released so is this kosher ?
Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 10:50:30 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Regarding quotes.
Tohka: You bastard...
Westcott: Ellen... I wonder why she hates me... What I did wrong in my introduction...?
Ellen: The methods you have used were not particularly pleasant if you wanted her approval.
Tohka: Were you the one behind all this?! What are you after?! What it is your aim?!
Westcott: My aim...hm...Ah! Yes. That would actually be very simple. I want your powers as Spirit to turn the ways of the world upside down.... In order to topple the restraints of this world and unleash total chaos.
Tohka: What in the world?
Westcott: But you existence in this world is stable. I wonder what I have to do to make you despair?
Tohka: What you are talking about?
Westcott: To hate this world, to hate humans. Even the strongest Angel isn’t capable of filling the hole in your heart. You can only rely on external assistance beyond that of an Angel. How is it possible for you to enter that state? Looking through the AST records, there was a time when you was indeed near such a stage...What exactly happen then?
Tohka: You are insane...
Westcott: Any ideas, Ellen? *sigh* —I say, Ellen. Maybe it would be faster if we increased the physical torture on her? Let’s start off with electrocution. And then decrease the oxygen concentration in the room, and observe her reaction. Maybe we can also try changing the air pressure. If those fail, then let’s chip her nails away, and her fingers... ah, right, maybe we can grind out her teeth too. The pain felt by the nervous system will be unbearable by then. A Spirit’s body is much more resilient than a human... try feeding her poison. Ah, in that case, we should also give her tranquilizers. And then, yes, you're a virgin? How do you feel about your own chastity? The pain you will feel when we completely destroy and defile your dignity you have as a woman. In the long time you’ve spent in this world, have you had any friends or loved ones? If we were to kill a loved one in front of you, how would you feel? I would love to see one of them dying before your eyes to see the results.
—Isaac Westcott meeting Tohka Yatogami, Date A Live
This is one is way too long, also, we have three quotes about the same character. I get that Isaac is extremely quotable, but three about the same guy?
Anyway. We can't just cut it to this?
Westcott: Any ideas, Ellen? *sigh* —I say, Ellen. Maybe it would be faster if we increased the physical torture on her? Let’s start off with electrocution. And then decrease the oxygen concentration in the room, and observe her reaction. Maybe we can also try changing the air pressure. If those fail, then let’s chip her nails away, and her fingers... ah, right, maybe we can grind out her teeth too. The pain felt by the nervous system will be unbearable by then. A Spirit’s body is much more resilient than a human... try feeding her poison. Ah, in that case, we should also give her tranquilizers. And then, yes, you're a virgin? How do you feel about your own chastity? The pain you will feel when we completely destroy and defile your dignity you have as a woman. In the long time you’ve spent in this world, have you had any friends or loved ones? If we were to kill a loved one in front of you, how would you feel? I would love to see one of them dying before your eyes to see the results.
—Isaac Westcott meeting Tohka Yatogami, Date A Live
Westcott: My aim...hm...Ah! Yes. That would actually be very simple. I want your powers as Spirit to turn the ways of the world upside down.... In order to topple the restraints of this world and unleash total chaos.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 8th 2018 at 1:53:34 PM
Watch me destroying my country@Miraculous: Well we have approved entries from movie scripts that were changed. So "technically" that's non-canon too.
That being said, I feel like having to dig through the game's files just to find a secret ending that isn't even canon is grasping at straws a bit.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.I tried adding the Hongqi example from Foxfire to the Complete Monster page but its not showing. Who do I contact to get it added?
Another thing might be worth mentioning is according to the developers when the ending was first found, supposedly their initial reaction was "You were not supposed to see that."
Actually the more I think about it, it sounds more and more like this was an elaborate joke on the Game Grumps part to compete with Doki Doki.
Edited by Beast on Dec 8th 2018 at 1:15:10 PM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."@konekootome: You gotta do a write-up for said villain and it'll be submitted next week by ACW.
@Beast: That's really not helping. :/
Edited by Tyk5919 on Dec 8th 2018 at 2:17:20 PM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Here's the writeup, from the YMMV page. Is this long enough?
- Complete Monster: the Kuchisake-Onna's lover Hongqi, son of Quon. To humiliate his lover, he disfigured her by giving her a Glasgow Grin and destroyed her emotionally by taking away her children and preventing her from seeing them. When she was driven to suicide, he disposes the children by trapping them in an active kiln and shutting it closed with earthbending. Which cremated the children alive.
Also, for those who know the franchise: Is killing your wife and 2 kids enough?

That's...the weird thing. Chesterfield just sorta vanishes and we learn he died in a line from Benton. There's probably something behidn the scenes with his actor, but I have no idea what it is.
I'm not sure Benton needs much of an expansion, honestly. All his qualifiers are already there....maybe just a lin to clarify he sold harp's son into slavery. He ends up entirely out-gambitted and doesn't realize that his superior, Lord Fisher, allows him to confront Harp so Harp can kill hi and Fisher eliminates two brids with one stone (Harp is a hunted criminal and Benton is dead, Fisher wins)
Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 8th 2018 at 9:42:52 AM