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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#139126: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:18:26 PM

Really, the issues in most of those shows is the fact the protagonists commit actions that skewer the heinous standard.

[tup] Ralph Bakshi candidate.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#139127: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:18:54 PM

For adult cartoons, I'd say the last season of Venture Brothers came damn close to having a character count. While a comedy at heart, there is more than enough serious drama and genuine tragedy for it to be conductive for a candidate in the future.

Honestly, though, I'm still personally debating whether Jonas Venture actually counts. He has an ambiguous Pet the Dog moment, but other that, I could see people voting yes.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#139128: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:18:56 PM

[tup]Corbin.

[up][up][up]The issue is that most Adult Comedies tend to go the South Park or Family Guy route, playing normally horrific acts for comedy, so even on the occasion it's taken seriously, it fails to count as truly heinous by the standards of the work.

Edited by Clown-Face on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:19:19 AM

Why so serious?
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#139129: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:20:29 PM

[up][up] What's said ambiguous moment there?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#139130: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:20:35 PM

Agree with Austin. I mean, comedies can also have candidates. The true main issue is that in some adult comedies, there are some main characters who commit some acts that are worse than the villains themselves (Looking at you Family Guy!)

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#139131: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:24:18 PM

[up][up]You can see the Pet the Dog moment on his character sheet. Basically, after involving his son in a dangerous mission that got him kidnapped by some ultimately harmless men, Jonas tells his son to leave before he kicks their asses. The men felt bad about trying to ransom him and gave him one of the best days in his life. Of course, Jonas repeatedly and maliciously put his son in dangerous situations all the time.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#139132: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:25:45 PM

Mmm... how's an EP sound? I could verge either way on that.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#139133: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:30:46 PM

I'd have to go back and watch all the old episodes. There's a lot of horrible stuff from the earlier seasons like abandoning orphans to be gassed to death in an underground bunker, manipulate all his teammates into loyalty like drugging one of his friends into a berserk killing machine, and heaping physical and psychological torture on his only son for years.

Not to mention all the immoral shit he pulls in the season 7 opening. Shit, just look up The Venture Brothers nightmare fuel page and see just how many entries involve Jonas Venture.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:34:14 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#139134: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:31:49 PM

On that topic, which work do you think has the most jacked-up heinous standard? My vote would go to South Park.

Help me!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#139135: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:33:37 PM

Think it had been answered pretty much several times. I'd go with Dragon Ball and Warhammer 40k for the works that had jacked heinous standard.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#139136: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:37:19 PM

And yet, they still managed to squeeze out a few keepers.

Help me!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#139137: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:38:57 PM

Highest standard? The Chaos Comics universe. Only keeper from that series, Armageddon, ranks up as one of the single worst to have ever applied to the trope, IMO.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#139138: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:39:55 PM

Yes to Corbin and Warhawk.

No to Memphis and Togeppei

  • Star Trek: The Original Series: From the season 1 episode Star Trek S1 E9 "Dagger of the Mind", Dr. Tristan Adams is a psychologist and a director of a Federation Penal Colony on Tantalus V. Though regarded as a brilliant psychologist who revolutionized Federation penal colonies, Adams eventually became corrupt and used a device called a Neural Neutralizer to turn the staff and inmates on the colony into brainwashed zombies. Anyone who resists the Neural Neutralizer suffers from extreme pain. When Adams used it on his assistant Dr. Simon Van Gelder, Van Gelder went insane and escaped to the Enterprise. Van Gelder is willing to cripple the Enterprise rather than return to Tantalus. After Kirk decides to investigate, Adams seems friendly at first, but eventually decides to use the Neural Neutralizer on Kirk, mentally assaulting Kirk in order to break him down and make him a zombie.

Edit: There can be monsters in comedies, if the villain is taken seriously, like in the first Deadpool movie and Galaxy Quest.

Edited by Overlord on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:53:12 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#139139: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:42:30 PM

@Scraggle Speaking of Chaos Comics... Heard you want to cover Sagos from Lady Death am I right. Even if I'm interested with Lady Death, I leave that comic to you to cover.

Speaking of which, still cant wait for TAO EP. I think its okay if you want to do it at 2019 Scraggs given the load of the works you want to see.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:43:57 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#139140: Dec 7th 2018 at 9:47:23 PM

One of these days... ACW hasn't removed that from my to-do, has he?

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:47:44 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#139141: Dec 7th 2018 at 10:08:32 PM

New proposal ahead.

What's the Work?

Time Bomb is a three-issue comic book by Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti. In the comic, a group of scientists discover a hidden Nazi city beneath the streets of Berlin, and within, the Nazi Party's secret doomsday weapon, constructed in the event that they lost the war — an Omega bomb that, when released, will wipe out all life on Earth with a plague described in-story as more deadly than Ebola. When they accidentally activate the Omega bomb, four specialists are sent back in time with a device called the 'Time Bomb', in the hopes of preventing humanity's destruction.

However, they fail to get their coordinates right, and instead of going back in 24 hours, they're thrown 65 years back — into the height of Nazi Germany. Where they come face-to-face with the mind behind the Time Bomb.

Who Is He?

Dr. David Page, a quantum physicist, winner of multiple Nobel prizes and at one point the smartest man on the planet....and secretly a Nazi named Gerhard Metzger. After Nazi Germany's fall, Metzger changed his name and became a scientist for the US Government, working on the construction of the Time Bomb. When the government shut the project down, Metzger decided to become the first human traveler, and went through the Time Bomb....but never came back.

Of course, the reason he created the Time Bomb? To correct an 'imperfect' past. That is, to ensure the Nazi's victory by going back in time to the waning months of the war, when Nazi Germany was near defeat, to have the Omega bomb deployed, wiping out all of humanity, save for himself, Hitler, and their allies, who would be safe underground. And once the rest of the world was dead, they would rise to claim the world as their own.

What Does He Do?

Metzger makes his introduction at a meeting hall, where he has one of the division generals executed due to falling behind schedule on the Omega bomb's construction, threatening the same on all the others if they continue to fall behind. Soon arriving at the Nazi hideout, Metzger is revealed to be overseeing multiple prisoners being used as test subjects for the bombs affects. One of them escapes, naked, covered in Frankenstein-like scars and suffering from the plague's affects, and collapses at Metzger's feet, hysterically begging for help. Metzger calmly comforts her, reassuring her that the men won't hurt her anymore....then slits her throats.

After the four specialists are captured by Metzger, the Fuhrer himself, Adolf Hitler, arrives at the station, and the Omega bomb is ordered to be deployed within a four hours. However, the prisoners escape and infiltrate the launch room, triggering the bomb's launch early. When Hitler bemoans that his family and friends will never reach the Underground shelter in time, Mutzger brushes it off as merely a small price to pray for 'the greater good'.

One of the heroes, Ken Weinhauser, succeeds in destroying the bomb, at the cost of his own life, destroying the hideout in the process. Metzger attempts to flee in a jeep, but two of the other heroes, Jack Mc Crea and Christian Grainger, shoot the tires, causing it to crash, with Metzger trapped underneath. Jack and Christian taunt the injured Metzger that his dreams of 'cleansing the Earth' will never come true, and Jack proceeds to drop a cigarette into the gasoline from the jeep, setting it aflame, with Metzger caught in the blast.

Mitigating factors?

No. He does seem to believe in the Nazi cause, but that's nothing more than his supremacist mindset. He pretty much blows past the heinous standard as well; aside from being, well, a Nazi, he's also fully complicit in a scheme that will wipe out most human life on Earth.

So yeah, I say keep him.

Edited by Clown-Face on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:11:25 AM

Why so serious?
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#139142: Dec 7th 2018 at 10:11:34 PM

[tup] To Page

For most jacked up heinous standard I would have to pick Family Guy mainly because many of their pointless gag cutscenes have some really heinous acts like Peter running over numerous people with his car during a marathon

Hell there’s a greater chance of finding a CM in South Park than there is in Family Guy, since the former at least doesn’t resort to pointless gags that detract from their plots (though the margin of greater chance isn’t really big)

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 7th 2018 at 8:20:47 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#139145: Dec 7th 2018 at 11:16:10 PM

[tup] Dr. David Cage

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139146: Dec 7th 2018 at 11:55:26 PM

[tup]Page and corbin

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#139147: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:28:23 AM

Kaz: Keisuke's going with this week's batch.

[tup] Corbin. G-Editor: That's not quite right; I checked, and Spawn airewd a few months before.

Scraggle: I dunno, seems like Abaddon and Bile could give Armageddon a run for his money. As for TAO, I removed it from the to-do here, but it's still at CM To Do Lists.

[tup] Metzger. This is like the 4th CM from a Gray and Palmiotti collab.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139148: Dec 8th 2018 at 2:45:11 AM

Alright.

And heres two of my pending write-up's:

  • Dragon Blood: The aformentioned Jade Eyes is a wicked mage and Jakoven's partner in evil. Capturing Ward, Jade Eyes has him locked in the aformentioned asylum where Jade Eyes has him drugged, visceraly tortured and sexually assualted. Failing at this, Jakoven and jade eyes kidnap a young cousin of Ward's and have him drugged with clear intent to molest him as well as bled to impower their weapon. After his master's defeat, Jade Eyes reveals he intends to revive the three dragons which were created to make the gem to create to empire for himself despite them intending to destroy the Five Kingdoms upon revival being callous to the carnage as long as he rules.
  • Tentyrian Legacy: Stavros is the leader of the Dark Coven. Once one of the rulers of the Tentyrians, Stavros looked down upon humanity viewing them as inferior to Tentyrians and wished to rule them. Stavros had two of the other rulers assasinated and helped spark a fire which killed dozens and later threathened to burn down the various covens of the other rulers while threathning to harm their children should they not relinquish control to him but intending to still kill them anyway even if they comply. After the people rebel, Stavros' forces enact a purge which leads to the near genocide of the Tentyrians. Stavros' and the Dark Coven than begin a campaign of terror throughout the world, playing humanity against each other from the shadows and causing conflicts to become far worse and than reaping the profits afterwards. Planning on committing a cull on humanity, Stavros attempts to corrupt Arianna—one of the last Tentyrian's—to his side and even tortured to death one of her friends to find information on her wherabouts intending to rule supreme for all of eternity.

Added to drafts.

Ill do Orchard after Scraggle gets the last midsommer keeper first

Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 2:47:57 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#139149: Dec 8th 2018 at 4:28:31 AM

@Overlord: Since your a big Star Trek fan would you mind checking out the foreman from the epsiodr "The Xindi" of Star Trek Enterprise. He was approved but never written up so it would be great if you could eigher write him up or re-EP him.

Edited by miraculous on Dec 8th 2018 at 4:28:54 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#139150: Dec 8th 2018 at 4:32:02 AM

Yes to Dr. Metzger. Kind of reminds you of Mengele. Coincidence? I think not

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

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