During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
No to Togepi.
11, I'm... genuinely kind of concerned that you're not understanding the baseline standard properly. Dictators and child murderers are one thing, but this makes one generic bully you've proposed and one Pokemon who doesn't even tiptoe near the baseline standard, let alone the series standard. May I suggest either observing a few more effortposts to generally see what we measure as "heinous" or taking a look at the administrivia/FAQ page?
I am sorry but I just can't upvote a Togepi. There have been some weird C Ms but this is one I woukd have to see to believe.
Togepi, it's motivation is too silly and it isn't taken seriously. The fact that a Togepi is evil in the first place is Played for Laughs. The closest Pokemon to be a CM other than Darkrai were the Malamar, and while they served the Knight of Cerebus trope well I believe they failed the heinous standard
Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:08:42 AM
That movie didn't give him actual crimes? Showing him killing people for real and stuff like that? Sure, it played him for laughts and abused racist tropes, but at least were genuine crimes.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 7th 2018 at 6:30:56 AM
Watch me destroying my countryA Complete Monster can be comical; otherwise, we wouldn't have the like of Bill Cipher or the Joker on this list, would we?
Help me!Nobody said a CM can't be comedic. Just that they can't be completely Played for Laughs.
No on Togepi... Dont know if Pokemon can produce any CM anymore unless if there are villains who are more heinous than Lysandre, Lusamine, Cyrus and Cipher. As for now, the only guy who are on the to-do list is the manga version of Ghetsis. But yeah, I doubt Pokemon will have other C Ms unless if there are either taking place in different continuity like Super Sentai or Kamen Rider or having a different reboot so yeah...
Anyways, bump.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

Hard no to Togeppei
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff