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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#138951: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:14:23 PM

[up][up][up] I don't really remember. I think it was to start an army or something. I may have to watch the episode again.

Help me!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#138952: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:14:29 PM

Hesitant [tup] to Warhawk. He isn't played for laughs, is he?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#138953: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:15:53 PM

From what I know of the Ruby-Spears Rambo, no... I think the overall tone there was something like the Ruby-Spears Chuck Norris. Cheesy and under a lot of censorship, but the villains themselves played seriously.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#138954: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:16:24 PM

What Lighty and Scraggs about the EP details but yeah, seems like a keep nevertheless.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#138955: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:23:40 PM

Sure to Warhawk. Played by Michael Ansara, possible most famous for DCAU!Freeze.

I'm STRONGLY thinking caption 2 for the replacement.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#138956: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:25:39 PM

[tup] Warhawk. Gotta love how we could kids cartoons from dark and graphic franchises back in the day. I heard there were plans for an Alien cartoon.

Anyways, are hidden or cut endings to games or visual novels that end up getting leaked something to look into ? It's probably a rare case but I may have stumbled on to something, I just need to know what we make of such examples.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#138957: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:29:22 PM

I'll change my vote to 2.

Also on Diana. Regardless of if she was Independent on Nia. She still assigned the tasks to Nia to do didn't she?

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#138958: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:31:06 PM

No, Diana and Nia aren't taking orders from eachother. Both of them think they are in control of the other and show an open mutual disdain. They don't take orders from eachother but it's fairly clear Diama wouldn't have gotten as far as she did without Nia, which isn't very far.

Edited by Beast on Dec 6th 2018 at 9:32:19 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#138959: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:33:02 PM

Beast: Hidden or cut endings? I'm intrigued.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#138960: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:39:29 PM

Apparently a dating simulator Visual Novel called Dream Daddy has a mystery ending that turns the story into a horror game and turns the plot and hands out The Ending Changes Everything. Thing is the ending isn't in the game itself but can be found and unlocked in the files.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#138961: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:39:34 PM

[tup] General Warhawk

[up] Joseph if the YMMV page says anything. Right? I'd say EP him, if he gets approved, just add a "In this extra scenario accesible only by datamining" to the entry

[down] Same.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 6th 2018 at 10:48:21 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#138962: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:45:11 PM

Wait a sec if Nia wasn't following orders how did she even get as far as she did?

Also I realize we never answered a user's question a while back. I prefer emotional C Ms

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 6th 2018 at 7:46:32 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#138963: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:49:18 PM

It's Diana who couldn't get as far as she did. Nia had all the power in their team up and Diana was just a clutz who thought she could just stroll in and claim the world she is unfamilar with and rule it's people she is also unfamilar with, which is why she was ultimately dependant on Nia. Neither are The Dragon - each one thinks they have control over the other, it's just made incredibly obvious Nia has the more power here.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#138965: Dec 6th 2018 at 7:53:49 PM

Aww I see.

Hm, I suppose the last case I could see now we're her goals. Even if she never got to achieve them.

For example with Dr. Facillier. He on his own ever kills one character and needs his friends to give him any of his powers but his goals(Sacrifice an entire city to damnation) was bad enough to count(That said Diana seems to lack Facciliers competence)

And [tup] to warhawk

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 6th 2018 at 7:59:20 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#138966: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:01:53 PM

My issue with that comparison... the Friends don't qualify as a Complete Monster on their own. When you have two candidates neck-and-neck to each other and the narrative is clearly leaning one of them to be worse? That presents serious issues with the other standing out. Second place doesn't mean anything in this scenario.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#138967: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:03:32 PM

Alrighty.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#138968: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:06:25 PM

A Dictator and The Dragon can easily count at the same time, but it needs to both of them to have many standout crimes of their own.

Watch me destroying my country
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#138969: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:10:31 PM

Exaclty; Diana doesn't have that much stand out crimes - she enslaves people, who only comply to her because Nia forced them to; and she threatens to wipe out a whole country, but so does Nia and Nia shows she can be more of a threat even without the nuke or Diana.

Looking back the only thing that actually stands out about Diana is her attitude about this; even Joffery would call her petulant!

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#138970: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:11:04 PM

Like the film version of James Tyrell and both versions of Richard from Richard III Right?

As an example of both the Big Bad and The Dragon counting.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 6th 2018 at 8:12:01 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#138971: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:12:44 PM

Btw... Gotta take dibs on a Video Game called Death Mark... After seeing the page, there's one character that has a potential to be discussed as far as I'm concerned.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#138973: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:26:09 PM

It depends on the monster for me.

My ideal levelheaded monster is a Cold Ham Soft-Spoken Sadist, in a constant state of level headedness or Tranquil Fury, who is a disturbingly realistic Card-Carrying Villain. He is prone to committing atrocities out of spite, and doesn’t let his Pragmatic Villainy negate his cruelty. He always has a cold or unamused look on his face, making the moments he laughs even more disturbing. As a child, he will have indulged in Troubling Unchildlike Behaviour. He can kick even the worst of dogs and still come off as the Villain. He is also too evil to be a coward, and would spurn any mercy shown towards him.

My ideal emotional monster, on the other hand screams almost every line, and is an Obliviously Evil Knight Templar Psychopathic Manchild with a Hair-Trigger Temper. He is prone to commiting attrocities over the stupidest slights, but doesn’t let his Bond Villain Stupidity negate his cruelty. He is a grim deconstruction of someone taking revenge on his abuser, inasmuch as he decides to do horrible things that far outweigh any sympathetic backstory, and you cannot feel sorry for who he has become. He is a Dirty Coward, and begs for undeserved mercy after all he’s done.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 7th 2018 at 6:41:45 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#138974: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:33:12 PM

My ideal Emotional monster is the Laughably Evil type. It helps avoid making them one dimensional.

Especially ones like Bill Cipher or The Terror(The latter is very underrated in my opinion)

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 6th 2018 at 8:33:50 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#138975: Dec 6th 2018 at 8:39:40 PM

This is going to be a long writeup!

  • Rambo: The Force of Freedom: General Warhawk, the leader of S.A.V.A.G.E., is a power-hungry despot bent on world domination. To achieve this, he steals a warplane to take over a nation, kidnaps The President's Daughter to make him surrender, and allies with an admiral to steal an important battleship. He has a doctor kidnapped to create neutron fusion energy to Take Over the World. He tries to blow up the Boulder Dam as a diversion to rob Las Vegas. He demands to be paid $1000000 and blows up the shipping on the Suez Canal when his demands are not met. He organizes a hostage situation of a teacher and her students and the blowing up of the Eiffel Tower. He steals relief supplies from a country ruined by disaster. He steals the USS Typhoon to auction to terrorists. He tries to start a war between two neighboring countries by stealing a white rhino. He grabs a probe to steal samples from a comet and get microbes that turn people into lunatics. He seizes control of the Warton Missile Complex and launches an attack from the missile base to all of North America when his demands aren't met. He uses a mind-control box on a killer whale to attack the NORAD Bases. He has no problem with harming children, and attempts to capture some to discredit our heroes, and later (with the help of the pilot) causes their plane to crash in Africa. He has a scientist brainwash people so he can get plans for a laser to shoot down a satellite. He and his troops hijack a supertanker, planning to cause an ecological disaster unless his demands for a warship are met. He has elderly people driven out of their homes so he can dig into a military base and steal a supertank. He hijacks a NATO base and tries to auction its supplies to other terrorists. He kidnaps a scientist and his daughter to steal the formula for a proton bomb. He sends Mad Dog to hijack a space shuttle called Xenon with plans to blow up satellites unless his demands are met. General Warhawk has no sense of camaraderie, and often abandons whoever he works with just to save himself. Although the show is Lighter and Softer than its source material, General Warhawk manages to be a disturbingly dark and realistic villain for a kid's cartoon.

Help me!

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