During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Since my first was such a success, here's another EP.
What's the Work?
Fearsome Tales for Fiendish Kids is the second sequel (the first being Ghostly Tales for Ghastly Kids, which, unless I'm wrong, has no one who counts) for Grizzly Tales for Gruesome Kids. The fourth story (of sixteen) is The Chipper Chums Go Scrumping. The Chipper Chums are blatant copies of The Famous Five by Enid Blyton. The members are Algie, Col, Ginger, Ginger's little sister Alice, a girl named Sam, and Algie's dog, Stinker. The group goes out for a picnic and decide to go scrumping. They spot an apple tree, but the apples are too high to reach. Luckily, by standing on Sam's shoulders, Algie is able to get the apples. While they're chowing down, however, the owner comes after them.
Who is He? What Has He Done?
Farmer Tregowan is the owner of the tree from which Algie took the apples. He comes hollering at the kids for stealing the apples. Unfortunately, Alice has tiny legs, so the kids can't leave her alone with the farmer. (Oddly, it never occurs to them to carry Alice to the hole in the fencenote .) However, Stinker rushes at Farmer Tregowan to protect his master and his master's friends. This proves fatal, as Farmer Tregowan proceeds to gun down Stinker (a literal case of Shoot the Dog). Col is outraged, and threatens to tell his father, but Tregowan isn't cowed by this threat, and simply says they've been stealing his apples. Algie tries to apologize, but Farmer Tregowan just grins and says he need all the apples for his cider. When Alice states they've eaten the apples, he says he'll just have to squeeze the apples out of them. Col tries to put an end to this by pointing out that they can run away whenever they like, but (and this is where it gets really dark) the evil farmer exclaims that he's coated the apples in pesticide! The pesticide quickly takes effect and paralyzes the unlucky kids. Farmer Tregowan crushes the kids in his cider press, extracts the juice from their stomachs, and puts what's left of them in an old oak vat, where they ferment into the year's brew.
...and like most other adults in the series who enact Disproportionate Retribution on kids, Farmer Tregowan gets zero punishment for his crimes. However, the TV episode rewrites Stinker's fate as simply being made lame and actually going to warn people of this crime, so Farmer Tregowan may get some form of karma.
Mitigating Factors?
None, really. I don't feel that the Chipper Chums are completely innocent, since they were scrumping for applesnote , but they were certainly the nicest victims in the series, and what Farmer Tregowan did is way out of line, even by the series' standards. To make matters worse, there were no warning signs on the trees that the apples had pesticides on them. Despite the constant Narm that goes on through the story, none of what Farmer Tregowan does is ever Played for Laughs. The Chipper Chums' fate was one of the darkest in the series (but not the darkest, as you'll find out with my next candidate).
Verdict?
I'm leaning
.
@Kylotrope : Shang Chi's Archnemesis Dad is none other than the iconic Yellow Peril villain and suprising Magneficent Bastard Fu Manchu himself.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 3rd 2018 at 1:18:14 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I'll look at Tregoran in a minute but honestly going to say no to the Johnny English baddie. This sounds like one of the many cases where the film doesn't—likely because it doesn't want to sap itself of the lightheartedness—play the severity of the villain's crimes anywhere near the level of viciousness the EP is making it out to be. Yeah, I get he says planes and hospitals will be shut down but the EP also made the point that we don't see any of it, again, probably because the film doesn't want to take away the light tempo it set. We've had cases where the only point made in a work about a villain destroying a town is the property damage caused, hell, there's a trope about it and this sounds exactly like one.
Alright @ 11, Lemme ask, is there much more to this story than the farmer confronting the kids, killing/hurting their dog and then turning them into juice? I know we've had The Bad Guy Wins/Downer Ending keepers before but given that I'm sensing this is a short work, I'm a little concerned about what it does other than show the kids shouldn't steal and that the farmer is brutal af.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 3rd 2018 at 4:27:17 AM
That trope would be Conveniently Empty Building. Power Rangers uses it a lot which is one of the reasons I had Xandred cut since his potential loss of life wasnt actually explicit compared to Serrator.
I'll abstain on the Johnny English villain untill I get a second opinion which would be nice.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 3rd 2018 at 1:24:24 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Well, what do you know? I was actually looking into the farmer myself. Though after I had finished watching the television series. As for the farmer...uh. Honestly, I can't really say he keeps. At the very worse, he just crossed over the Moral Event Horizon. I mean, he has a small body count for starters, and while converting the children into cider is definitely terrible, aside from that, there are no other crimes that he had to his name. With Grizzly Tales, one of the main points behind the series is children suffering from cruel, gruesome fates all in the name of an Aesop. Really, children getting murdered in the end and converted to food in itself isn't uncommon in the series. Granted, the series is set as an anthology so no stories would actually correlate with each other, but here, the whole idea behind the deaths of the children was that "they stole, so they deserved to be punished."
He has enough personality and character, don't get me wrong, but I wasn't really impressed.
Well how many other villains commit the actions the farmer does?
also Fu Manchu....I'm looking foward to it then. Wasn't it a Running Gag that they couldn't say his name as marvel didn't have his rights?
Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 3rd 2018 at 1:38:05 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereWell, for one, the Spaghetti Man is an evil spirit that kidnaps children and makes them into pasta when they refuse to eat anything on their plates; there was a witch who was the host of some cooking show where she would feed children bizarre food that would fatten them up before placing a tracking device into them and luring them to her island. And then she would make paste out of them. Really, the list goes on.
Sure, you could argue the idea that these creatures lack moral agency or run on Blue-and-Orange Morality, but I don't really see how the farmer is any worse.
Edited by AustinDR on Dec 3rd 2018 at 1:43:04 AM
Farmer
If it's that common in the work. I really don't see him standing out.
This may be a work with such a fucked up morality system that Somone counting is next to impossible.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 3rd 2018 at 1:44:59 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."The farmer dosent seem to have the recources of the others. And the others actions seem more comical then the farmers.
Also on Volta, I think it may have been budget issues? Like they felt they didnt need to make CGI planes falling down or build Hospital sets and felt they'd get the point across. If it was a tonal issue they didn't have to show Europe getting the blackout at all and just have him threataningly to cause the global blackout. Either way I'm not sure if ambiguoty on the creators intentions could as a mitigating factor.
Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 3rd 2018 at 1:48:49 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereGrizzly Tales eh... Yeah, have to admit that I have watched some of the episodes of the shows. I think I can tolerate the Black Knight. But yeah... There are some things that are just not for kids. For example the episode Nobby's Nightmare in which the child was punished because... Well, he cant perceive whats real and whats not due to his parents love to be naked and was perceived as an alien and having a bit of strained relationship with his gf (This episode while the most remembered, is confusing af) or there is an episode where a child (Although he had it coming) was brutally punished because he was addicted to internet by having his flesh cut off... Leaving nothing but eyes and brains. Yea... Some story in there is frickin brutal and not for kids.
Speaking of frickin brutal... Apparently Jump released a very dark manga from the author of Fire Punch. Gotta take dibs on that and hope it survived the brutal competition of WSJ.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Dec 3rd 2018 at 4:53:27 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Isn't Shonen Jump the one that runs that inexplicably popular manga about the rubber boy named Monkey?
Anyway, Tabletop Games de-potholings and such:
- Battle Machines: Carman Skiric destroys communities on planets he wants to capture because, in his eyes, people exist only as a resource, somewhere below energy and metal. The only reason the Earth and Sol governments have him as the commander of their armies is that he is so utterly terrifying that many foes just give up, rather than have him come down and fight. He's also psychotic, and his personal mech wields four chainsaws, which he uses because, as he says, "I like to see the expression of dawning realisation on their faces, right before I tear them apart".
- The Dark Eye: Rhazzazor was an ancient dragon who sold his soul to Thargunitoth, the Archdemoness of the Undead, and became a powerful undead monstrosity. He would eventually become the despotic ruler of a small nation, demanding monthly human sacrifices to maintain his unholy existence. When Emer, the ruler of the Middle Realm, not only dared to challenge him but also managed to injure him, he turned her into a living seal for an Eldritch Abomination, driving her almost insane. Eventually he planned to steal the life essences of thousands of people to give himself a new body, offering their souls to Thargunitoth in exchange for his own. When a group of heroes stopped the dark ritual that would've allowed Thargunitoth to claim these souls, Rhazzazor still continued with the plan, hoping that the sheer life essences of all those soul would give him enough strength to simply break the pact and reclaim his soul.
- Deadlands: (Jasper) Stone, the Harrowed responsible for bringing Hell to Earth, was originally a Confederate officer with a reputation for cruelty and brutality. When he became the servant of the Reckoners, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Stone ruthlessly killed any who could stand in their way, hunting down and murdering countless heroes. Stone does everything of his own free will for his hunger to take lives and to see Hell on Earth enacted, and is so bad that even the manitou animating his body is terrified of his evil.
- Dragonstar: Emperor Mezzenbone is a red wyrm and the first chromatic emperor of the Dragon Empire after five millennia of good-aligned metallic rulers. Like most of his kind he's cruel and regards non-dragons as cattle at best, but even among his Always Chaotic Evil kin he stands out for his catastrophic plans for the galaxy. During the Dragon War between chromatic and metallic dragons that left many worlds devastated in its wake, he was first an important wyrm in the chromatic Asamet Kingdom and then its leader after its first king mysteriously died, and while most abhorred the tragedy of the War, Mezzenbone reveled in the slaughter, planning to annihilate friend and foe alike and rule the remains of a lifeless universe as a god. He only changed his mind when he realized the War would claim his life too if it escalated further, and agreed to the truce that would form the Empire only because he knew he needed the 5,000 years until his guaranteed ascension to the throne in order to ensure his scheme would unfold flawlessly. In the present day of the setting, forty years after his coronation, he has introduced a number of controversial acts including forming a drow Secret Police, supporting worship of his patron deity, the Destroyer, and brutally assimilating new worlds into the Empire. When he believes the time is right, Mezzenbone will unleash everything at his disposal, including systems-destroying superweapons and magical artifacts of untold power, and completely shatter all possible opposition to his scheduled omnicide.
- Feng Shui:
- 69 AD juncture: Ming I, the worst of the Four Monarchs, is a user of warped shadow magic who willingly replaced her arm with an Artifact of Doom to hurt people more. In her native timeline, she ruled over the Aztecs and then took Human Sacrifice to heights even they found abhorrent, learning how to use the blood of virgins to extend her youth, only being allowed to remain because she cowed them into believing she was a god who killed or enslaved all of theirs. Worst of all is her mass Mind Rape.
- 2056 AD juncture: Curtis Boatman is described in-game as a bloated, corrupt, and utterly selfish jerk whose own motive is his own profit, and is personally responsible for several sadistic experiments. His laundry list of crimes includes the Uber-kids; tricking normal people into accepting The Corruption of Arcanotech and then accelerating it deliberately so he can have perfectly loyal super soldiers; keeping an entire greenhouse complex of Black Market Produce for himself; planning to betray his boss Bonengel because Boatman likes the Crapsack World with himself at the top of the pyramid as it is; and despite the Buro wanting equality at all costs, he's a huge bigot responsible for the rampant homophobia in the 2056 juncture.
- Iron Kingdoms: Toruk is the God-Emperor of the dragon race, although he considers his progeny the only thing that might pose a threat to him and desires to destroy them all. To accomplish this, he turns a whole set of island nations into a mix of undead and mutants to serve as his army, all with the intent of slaughtering as many of the inhabitants of the mainland as possible to make a bigger army.
- Legend of the Five Rings: Hantei XVI, known as Otomo Okucheo before his ascension and also known as the Steel Chrysanthemum, is the most violent and tyrannical Emperor that Rokugan ever had. He was ambitious even as a young child, when he arranged for the murder of his brother to prevent him from being made Emperor. His atrocities ranged from the disastrously grand, such as creating a Secret Police force to hunt down traitors and political dissidents; to the disturbingly petty, such as torturing a woman to death for protesting his widespread use of torture, and then naming her as a minor goddess of torture. He ruined a political opponent's reputation and career, just so he could claim the man's daughter as a concubine. When that daughter refused to bear Hantei XVI a child, he had her imprisoned in her own room and forced the matter. The final straw, however, was ordering the execution of his own mother, because she dared to protest him killing all of his siblings so they couldn't contest his claim to the throne. This final act was enough to make his entire guard, horrified by what he had done, turn on him, assassinating him in spite of the fact that they would all need to commit seppuku afterwards. Back from the Dead more than 500 years later, Hantei engineered the 12-year-long War of Spirits in order to try taking back the throne. After the War, as one of the conditions of the treaty, Hantei tutors the son of an opponent. Planning to attack his student in order to cause the treaty to be broken and war to break out again, Hantei, while beating this student, is killed by his own fiancée, who has grown to care for this student.
Edited by ACW on Dec 3rd 2018 at 5:51:00 AM
@ACW Hahahaha yeah...
Though have to admit that some of their recent releases are dark af such as Neverland, Kimetsu no Yaiba, Jujutsu Kaisen (Which is the manga I reserve for now) or Chainsaw Man. And some of them are pretty much shoujo-ish but survived pretty well in Jump's brutal competition like Act-Age.
oh yeah... the axed Amalgam of Distortion is also in the darker side of Jump.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Dec 3rd 2018 at 5:03:00 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

Like I said...I'm fully prepared to believe Volta qualifies if someone else can vouch here. As for Shang Chi? He was the star of a martial arts-themed comic