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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#137428: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:22:57 PM

Well, the bomb was intended to go off at a major political office building, but, as I say, the person intended to deliver the bomb got cold feet when she saw the cleaning crew show up and left, the bomb got stolen and detonated in a trash can. Looked to be about a 13-yard radius.

Edited by k410ren on Nov 25th 2018 at 5:25:42 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#137429: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:23:20 PM

What I'm asking is how strong was the bomb? Was it intended to level the building?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#137430: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:24:15 PM

Yes to Sara and I'll wait for this discussion on Garnieux to play out before I cast a vote.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#137431: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:24:49 PM

Alright how strong was it.

Was it meant to level the buliding and kill everyone inside ?

I'm taking my vote away. Intill I get an answer.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 25th 2018 at 2:25:23 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#137433: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:30:22 PM

If my answers are given, I'll happily switch my own

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#137434: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:34:39 PM

[tup] to victor

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#137435: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:48:58 PM

Switching to [tdown] on Victor.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#137436: Nov 25th 2018 at 2:56:41 PM

Abstaining on Victor pending info on the bomb's strength.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#137437: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:02:14 PM

[tdown] to Gamieux.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 25th 2018 at 7:22:51 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#137438: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:02:34 PM

Another pothole I cleaned up, this time for a The Long Long Holiday entry under Licked by the Dog. Once again, anyone familiar or interested with the series can do the proper EP.

  • The Long Long Holiday: when Otto rushes to the Marteau farm to warn them about the other German soldiers, their dog, Fourteen, looks up briefly but then lies back down. More of a symbolic example, since Otto has been living there for years at this point, but the way it's shot seems deliberate. In contrast, Fourteen barks like usual when Hans shows up, and gets shot for it.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#137439: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:23:10 PM

While we are on the topic of generic action villains, is it overstepping my boundaries to say that absolutely nobody from the movie Hot Fuzz is worthy of even being mentioned on this thread?

The only ones who could count easily, Frank Butterman and Simon “Sissy” Skinner, both subscribe to the notion of Evil having loved ones; unless you count Tom Weaver, who is, in my opinion, insufficently heinous (even if the reveal of his grandson being a hoodie calls into question whether he has anyone he truly loves) considering he is just one of twenty four killers.

Also, the Neighborhood Watch killers are mostly affably evil, which is a red flag when it comes to whether someone counts. Affably Evil is a redeeming quality, is it not?

Give me your thoughts on whether ANYONE in this movie is worth an EP.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#137441: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:27:57 PM

I thought not. Let’s add that to the FAQ.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#137442: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:33:13 PM

[tup] Zanara and Sara. [tdown] Gamieux.

[up] No one has ever mentioned anyone from the film counting before so there's no need to add it to the FAQ. People seem to already understand that no one in Hot Fuzz counts.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#137443: Nov 25th 2018 at 4:35:35 PM

Fair enough. It is, after all, a comedy movie.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#137444: Nov 25th 2018 at 5:34:08 PM

Okay with new info given, switching to [tdown] to Victor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#137445: Nov 25th 2018 at 6:24:46 PM

You never know, we might have a single person constantly try to get a Hot Fuzz character up to the point where they're the single reason Hot Fuzz gets on the never again list. Happened before with TFS Frieza after all [lol]

But yeah, no need to put it on the never again list at the moment

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#137446: Nov 25th 2018 at 6:25:11 PM

Depotholing Hackshaw. Borden is fine as is.

  • Cast a Deadly Spell: Amos Hackshaw is a wealthy Evil Sorcerer who plans to summon the Outer Gods so he can sell out his world for them to turn into "a world of the unburied dead" in exchange for godhood. To do this, he focuses decades of his life, including marriage and having a child, to making sure he has the perfect circumstances for the ceremony. Using the masquerade of being an overprotective dad to keep his daughter a suitable virgin sacrifice, he then goes about acquiring the Necronomicon. After the book is stolen to prevent the Apocalypse, he simultaneously hires private eye Phil Lovecraft and mob boss Harry Borden, the latter of whom he promised lordship over the post-apocalyptic world, to retrieve it. Creating a gargoyle servant to tail Lovecraft, he ends up using the creature to eliminate the book's thief and a few other loose ends. After Borden captures Lovecraft, Hackshaw decides that he should be forced to watch as he offers his daughter in sacrifice to Yog-Sothoth.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#137447: Nov 25th 2018 at 10:37:16 PM

Late Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I have a new candidate; King Robert from the Goosebumps book A Night In Terror Tower, and it's Choose Your Own Adventure sequel, Return To Terror Tower.

Who is King Robert?

Robert was a prince who lusted after the throne in medieval times. The Evil Uncle of the book's protagonists, Edward and Susannah of York. Robert murdered their parents, the king and queen, to usurp the throne, and ordered the Lord High Executioner and his men to smother his nephew and niece to keep them out of the way and ensure his rule remained permanent.

In A Night In Terror Tower, Robert is the unseen Greater-Scope Villain, he sends the Lord High Executioner into the future to kill his nephew and niece after the royal sorcerer, Morgred sent them to modern day London using his magic stones and gave them new memories in the hope they could escape their uncle and the Executioner. The Executioner forces Morgred to give him the stones and send him into the future to kill Edward and Suzannah to make sure they can't grow up and somehow find a way to go back in time to defeat their uncle and claim their rightful place as the true rulers.

In the (presumably non canon) sequel, Return To Terror Tower, King Robert is given a larger role, going from the unseen GSV to the Big Bad, as the plot concerns Edward and Suzannah returning to medieval times to defeat him and save the kingdom, and they are taking a friend (the reader) with them. When Robert gets word that his nephew and niece have returned, he orders the Lord High Executioner and his men to capture and kill them at all costs, along with the reader. In one of the bad endings, the reader is captured and brought directly to Robert, who forces them to dance for his amusement until they collapse from exhaustion, than has them killed. In the true ending, Robert is defeated, and it is revealed that the Executioner and the guards were under a spell he placed upon them to make them obey him. It is also revealed that the reader is a relative of Edward and Suzannah, and the three become rulers.

Heinousness?

King Robert is a power hungry man who decided to kill his entire family to claim the throne. He murdered the king and queen and ordered his kid nephew and niece to be executed. When they return with a friend, he orders the friend executed as well. While he does not have the bodycount that Mr. Toggle or Oswald Manse have, he is the only villain in the series, to my knowledge, who went as far as to try and kill their entire family for power.

Mitigating factors?

Robert does not get much screen, or rather, page time. He only appears in a few scenes in the Choose Your Own Adventure sequel. That said, his actions speak volumes about his character. While the CYOA story is likely not canon, it does resolve the issue of him not appearing in person that keeps him from qualifying in the original story. We have already had plenty of villains from non canon side stories.

jjj
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#137448: Nov 25th 2018 at 11:10:40 PM

[tdown] Robert. I've read a lot of Goosebumps in my day, and two murders, three attempted and some mind control is not heinous enough.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#137449: Nov 25th 2018 at 11:12:44 PM

Yeah... I dont think hes heinous enough by Goosebumps standards. Still, good job on the EP bob!

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#137450: Nov 25th 2018 at 11:17:38 PM

[tdown]Robert

Sounds generic by both goosebumps standards as well as mediveal royalty in gneral.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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