During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Sugar Plum.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Georg Zalbard and Joachim Reubens though.
So finally got around to beating that PS1 game I mentioned a couple days ago. The final boss was a pain in the ass. 
Anyway, C-12: Final Resistance is a post-apocalyptic third-person shooter created by SCE Studio Cambridge, the same company that made MediEvil. You play as Riley Vaughn, a cybernetic human soldier who has to put a stop to the alien invasion that has clearly been going on for quite some time with help from partners Colonel Grisham and Dr. Carter. As Vaughn wanders around the ruins of what I'm assuming is some location in the U.K., he rescues soldiers, destroys enemy bases, kills aliens/cyborgs, repairs resistance outposts, and collects keys/keycards. Many, many keys/keycards. He also occasionally runs into this guy...
Who Is He?
Major Dan Carter is an important henchman (he's even credited "Henchman" in the game) within the alien army. He's also Dr. Carter's husband, whom willingly joined the aliens and had himself turned into a cyborg.
What Has He Done?
At some point prior to the game, Major Carter, Grisham, and their squadron were captured by aliens. Vaughn was sent to rescue them all, but he only saved Grisham, and Major Carter was presumed dead. Major Carter defected, joined the alien invasion, and decided to assist them with their schemes. He aided the aliens as they hunted down members of the resistance so they could either kill them, torture them, or have them taken to their conversion facility, where they're turned into the very cyborgs Vaughn shoots his way through. During the game, Major Carter (or "Henchman") is first seen assisting some cyborgs as they're trying to hunt down human escape transports. He gives them control codes only he and General Hammond (who's dead) know of so the aliens and cyborgs can track the transports using the humans' satellite grid. He doesn't show up again until later on after Vaughn and Dr. Carter have acquired an alien power source the resistance intends on using. Just as they're about to leave, Major Carter reveals himself to Dr. Carter, who's horrified over what happened to her husband. He personally kidnaps Dr. Carter and takes her to the conversion facility, while his alien troops are left behind as they kill some resistance soldiers and try to kill Vaughn.
Vaughn rescues Dr. Carter from the facility, but just as they're about to leave, Major Carter shows up again, locking Dr. Carter inside of a room and unleashing his prototype weapon called the War Droid onto Vaughn. After Vaughn destroys the War Droid, he and Dr. Carter escape, with Major Carter swearing that he'll kill the two of them later since he has "far more important things to do." It's then revealed that while Dr. Carter was unconscious, the aliens planted a sub-dermal homing device on her, thus allowing the aliens to track her to the resistance's new base. Towards the end of the game, Vaughn (who's now almost entirely cyborg; long story) runs into Major Carter again in the aliens' stronghold, where he mocks him and his new appearance. He tells Vaughn that the entire planet will be wiped out soon, and he has no intentions of staying to be caught in the crossfire, before ordering guards to kill him. Vaughn finally defeats Major Carter in a Puzzle Boss fight, with Major Carter cursing Vaughn before he's Killed Mid-Sentence in an explosion.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. Even when he refuses to pursue Dr. Carter and Vaughn after the War Droid is demolished, this was only because he intended on killing them later, and presumably because he was aware that sparing Dr. Carter would allow the aliens to discover the resistance's new base (which they did).
Does He Have Loved Ones?
No. Evidently, he doesn't care about his wife anymore, considering that he kidnapped her and tried to have her either tortured to death or converted into a cyborg.
From what I can surmise from the cutscenes, dialogue, and personal logs between levels, Major Carter joined the aliens because he realized that humanity was losing. You know the old saying: "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." The game makes it clear that he was not brainwashed, nor was he coerced.
Heinous Standard Issues?
Major Carter is the only notable villain in the game besides the Alien Leader. To be fair, he's not The Dragon, but he does have some kind of high-ranking within the alien army. Is he responsible for creating the conversion facilities, or beginning the alien attack? No, not at all. That being said, Major Carter greatly aided the aliens in their attacks, hunting down escape transports and such. He was fully aware of what the aliens were doing and did nothing to halt their evil plans, and in some cases, assisted them. He personally kidnapped his own wife and tried to have her turned into a cyborg, which would've been a heavy blow to the resistance if it had succeeded. And when Major Carter discovers that the aliens wanna poison the entire planet and kill everyone? His first instinct is to cut and run.
Final Verdict?
Ehhhhh, I'm leaning towards keeper. His screentime is limited, but I feel like he does enough.
As for the Alien Leader...I'm gonna think on him a bit. I know a lot of people hate this term, but he's a borderline Generic Doomsday Villain. He has about four lines, and his reasoning for invading Earth is because "it's their destiny." Major Carter is a cliché Smug Snake, but he has way more character and motivation compared to the Leader.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to Major Carter. How's the game? Also, you said that you will make a drafts for CM to-do list. Can't wait to see that happen.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Major Carter.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Elfen: Upon replaying the game, I discovered that the hardest enemy was the fucking camera angles. As a whole, the game isn't really complex or anything; it's a standard third-person shooter with surprisingly good voice acting/graphics for its time. Not really an incredible game, and I beat it in a little over five hours, but for what it is, I had fun with it. Sometimes that's all you need.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Major Dan Carter
Goku Black
Carter
Well, I'd say at this point, the consensus on Sugar Plum is pretty clear. Can't say I'm surprised. If even I have my doubts after seeing whatever the work in question is, that's usually a pretty good indicator that the character in question doesn't do enough, isn't taken seriously enough, is a tad too sympathetic... wherever the issue lies. That said, aside from Elfen Lied Fan, does anyone else have anything to say about my first movie-related EP? Was the length of each section and the overall post appropriate, and informative without going into too many insignificant details? Was the wording good and engaging? Was there anything I could have noticeably improved on? Any feedback is appreciated, so long as it's not overly negative of course.
In the meantime, before I head out very soon, I also have to ask this because of the really weird situation involving this movie; is the discussion date for Mowgli: Legend of the Jungle (jeez, how many times have they changed, or at least tweaked, that title by now?) still set for 2019? Because recently, they've now announced it'll get a limited theater release on November 29th, followed by a subsequent digital Netflix release on December 7th. I haven't even been keeping super-close tabs on this film's release, and yet it still seems like both the name and the release date keep getting tampered with. So yeah, where exactly does that stand right now?
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Nov 17th 2018 at 10:40:55 AM
Carter.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Carter. Barely above generic villainy, but the fact he's willing to kill his wife and let Earth be destroyed is just enough.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Carter
Here's my writeup for Frederic.
- Resident Evil: Degeneration: Dr. Frederic Downing, a member of WilPharma, is the one behind the events of the movie. Previously a scientist for Umbrella Corps who stole samples of the t and G-viruses before Raccoon City’s demise, he planned to sell them and a vaccine through the black market as controllable, profitable bioweapons, later unleashing them on various countries as a way to pitch them to potential buyers. Finding a buyer in the form of General Miguel Grandé, he unleashed the t-virus onto Harvardville Airport that resulted in a zombie outbreak, blew up several vaccine trucks to disguise the incident as a terrorist attack, blew up a WilPharma building to kill Claire Redfield, and injected Curtis Miller with the G-virus all as a way to create a pitch video for Grandé.
I was thinking that on the Anime page, we can create a Resident Evil section that lists both Biohazard: The Wicked North Sea, and this movie.
"No running in the halls!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My plan exactly.
Yes to Dan Carter
Does anyone count in the last season of House of Cards?
Yea to Carter. And don't worry, Devoted, you did fine. As to Jungle Book, if it's getting a Netflix release, that's fine to measure the date by then. Now, then, new EP:
What's the Work?
The Clovehitch Killer is a recent film concerning boyscout teenager Tyler Burnside who lives in a small heavy religious community with a loving set of parents, a younger sister and has everything made....one day, he and his troupe are participating in a ceremony to honor the victims of the Clovehitch Killer, a killer known for leaving a Clovehitch knot behind and using it to tie his victims. Ten years ago, the Clovehitch killings stopped...then one night? Tyler borrows his scoutmaster father Don's truck to go make out with his crush....only for her to find a stack of bondage pornography there....
Tyler soon becomes friendly with a socially outcast girl named Kassi who is fascinated by true crime writings. Kassi's mother? Was a victim of Clovehitch...and as he digs further, Tyler begins learning something dark about his family, namely his father Don...
Who is Don Burnside?
The film dispenses with the suspense here pretty early. It becomes very obvious that Don is the Clovehitch Killer. Having ceased for a while, Don would sneak up on women, bind them and later murder them by suffocation...hidden in the garage, Tyler finds his trophies from at least ten victims, and a photo of a bound victim. The photo reads 'Nora-Lucky's favorite'...Tyler does digging and learns Nora was one of the victims...and Don keeps driver's licenses as trophies as well.
Kassi recounts as a little girl she stumbled upon Clovehitch murdering her mother, but never saw his face and nobody believed her story...when she eventually tells Tyler her mom's name? Yep, that's one of the driver licenses. Don tries to explain to Tyler how his brother Rudy, an invalid who lives in a facility, was the real Clovehitch when he finds Tyler with the evidence and how he kept it because he didn't know what to do, prompting Don to burn everything...only to become more and more frustrated as he has a hard time functioning without his trophies, or the bondage pornography. Tyler and Kassi begin to double around and stalk Don, as Don convinces his wife to take their daughter Susie to go visit grandma...and begins to stalk a random woman he sees at the grocery store. Eventually ambushing her in her home, he ties her up, takes pictures and prepares to murder her...when Tyler arrives with a rifle.
Don tries to play it off as jut having a kinky affair when the woman is unconscious. Tyler isn't buying it, but Don plays the part of the loving father to get in Tyler's head, convincing him to hand the rifle over. Saying "It's okay. I'm not mad..." ...and then aims the gun at Tyler, going ice-cold and saying "I'm disappointed." before pulling the trigger...only to realize the gun was empty.
Tyler tries to subdue Don, who beats him down and begins strangling him when Kassi knocks him unconscious. Realizing the woman never saw Don's face...they end up transporting him to the woods and arranging the scene just right. Tyler? Executes Don with a shot to the head and leaves it to look like an accident...the police rule it a suicide.
The film ends with Tyler keeping the secret for the sake of his mother and father, eulogizing Don at a memorial service. presumably as an item with Kassi, the two being the only ones who know of Don's evil.
Mitigating Qualities?
The film is a slow-burn suspense drama. Don is the only villain and as a killer, he's got a body count in the double digits. We see photos of victims, his trophy, an attempted victim...more than enough to establish a pattern her. Don...well? He's a straight Serial Killer. He seems an awkward, loving dad and while he requires his bondage photos and trophies to get aroused, he does seem to love Tyler throughout the movie....while he did stop killing for a while, this seems to not be based out of a moral standard, but just because he needed the heat off. It's pointed out serial killers don't ever 'just stop,' and Don is a ticking time bomb...sure enough, he does try for a new victim, where he seems to be joyous about tormenting her psychologically and giving her hope when tying her up.
And then comes the big wham moment when Don tries to shoot Tyler, and then throttle him without a speck of emotion or remorse, confirming in my eyes his family is just his 'mask' and he cares nothing for them whatsoever.
Conclusion?
I'd give a solid yes.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 17th 2018 at 11:41:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Um, Lighty? I hate to be that guy, but it looks like it just came out, like, yesterday.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
burnside
It came out on the film and festival circuits a while ago, actually. I saw it over a month ago....the wide release was recent.
If anyone is uncomfortable with me giving it the What Keeps you Alive treatment....let me know and I'll save it.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 17th 2018 at 11:46:28 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Burnside
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Huh, alright then. I don't mind for this one, but in general, do we use the film festival date, or the general release date?
Don either way.
Edited by ACW on Nov 17th 2018 at 2:51:01 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I prefer to wait two weeks.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Burnside.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I mean, technically it's a theater date. (I have a good few independent theaters like 25-30 minutes away)...for an independent film like this I didn't think much of t.
Goku Black
Thoughts on last vampire Himmler quote?
Don.
Also found at one of the old movies I was looking for so expect an EP soon.
Edited by Beast on Nov 17th 2018 at 2:02:46 PM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Yes to the Shining Resonance duo.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread