During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Dezono Qua is up there for me. Oh, hi, guy with like under 10 pages of screen time who is a serial murderer of children so he can eat them, how are you?
Now, okay, has taken me long enough...I'll take care of the Last Vampire, Yogg-Ron the Dragon and an example from Red: Werewolf Hunter soon, but good god, this one took me a bit:
What's the work?
Wayward is an urban fantasy comic series by Jim Zub. Rory Lane is a teen like most others. She's eager to make a new start for herself...the thing is? Rory's father is an Irish engineer. Her mother is a Japanese seamstress. After the divorce, Rory eventually moves to live with her beloved mother Sanae in Tokyo...Rory sticks out a lot given she's a natural redhead with bright green eyes. Her mom works crazy hours and...she sees weird patterns, and meets a strange cat girl who fights turtle men. Normal, right? Enter Wayward...where Rory meets up with a group of teens with exceptional and odd powers. It turns out? They're the new breed, the new gods of Japan, and fate is controlled by The Weave...the problem is the old beings don't wish to relinquish power so easily. Their leader? Nurarihyon, lord of the Yokai.
Who is Nurarihyon?
Long ago, the Yokai ruled Japan, led by Nurarihyon. Nurarihyon allows his followers to prey on human, tyrannizing them and ruling with an iron fist. However, gods come in cycles...inevitably, the Weave will bring about a new breed to replace the old. Furious and unwilling to accept the loss of his power, Nurarihyon sought to dominate the Weave itself....by enslaving the Weavers, beings who could guide the threads of Fate. The Weavers are forced to slave for the Yokai to tend the Weave and keep them perpetually bound to the Yokai, with any who step out of line executed. Things went fine for centuries...until a Weaver named Sanae left Japan and met Dermot Lane. The two married and had a daughter...who inherited the powers of the Weave, which led to the new gods being imbued with magic and power. Rory eventually joins together with the others, including Ayane, a girl who's basically the dreams of cats made form, Emi Ohara who can shape matter, Shirai who can only feed on ghosts and uses it to enhance himself...
Nurarihyon hunts down Sanae when he realizes what's going on, tortures her and has her executed in front of her daughter before trying to kill them. Framing Rory and her group as terrorists, Nurarihyon steadily wars with them throughout, weaving himself into human society to play the hero and manipulate anyone. Flashbacks also reveal to obtain Weavers? Nurarihyon and hi forces led brutal attacks that slaughtered entire villages as well.
Now, in the later story arcs, a battle with Nurarihyon leads to Rory being transported with her father to Ireland. It turns out Dermot is part of a secret order and fathered Rory with Sanae intentionally...why? To eventually lead her to annihilate the Weave itself and free the earth from its cycles. To this end, Dermot betrays Rory and stabs her in the back, prompting her to instinctively unleash her power, killing Dermot and his allies...Rory returns to Japan as Nurarihyon is done playing.
Taking a murderer, Nurarihyon tortures him hideously to corrupt him into an Oni before unleashing him...said oni under Nurarihyon begins exterminating downtown tokyo, obliterating entire swaths of it. The heroes come to fight, with Shirai sacrificing himself to destroy the Oni, as Nurarihyon engages with Emi in a pitched duel...Rory, however, finds the Weave and realizing that to control it will only create a new cycle...opts to destroy it instead, leading to a brand new magical world. Nurarihyon, realizing his loss, bitterly decides he has no more reason to live and declaring that the "future begins with fire," he incinerates himself into ashes.
Heinous standard?
The Big Bad and he sets it. Nurarihyon has a lot of bloodshed and manipulation under his belt, easily the worst in comic.
Mitigating Qualities?
Nope, Nurarihyon wants to keep dominating Japan, and for the Yokai to remain dominant. He can put up an excellent show of manipulation and pretending to care for others, but it's ultimately hollow. While he's not pointlessly sadistic, he's completely and utterly apathetic to the murder of a lot of people to suit his ends. Until the bit with the Oni, I was unsure about his qualifications but after that?
Conclusion?
I think we have a winner.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure on Nurahiyon
Oh and if we also include Starter Villain... Kamoshida is a close one. And for arc villain? Tomas. Oh and I also count Usui, Yusaka and Ryogaku as a vile minor villains too. Forgot about them.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:05:23 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Nurarihyon.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To nura(Not even gonna try spelling the rest)
For me, the most heinous minor CM would be the Nameless Pegasus Filly from the Pony POV Series. Interestingly, she is a case of Hilarious in Hindsight, as season 8 of the show gave us Cozy Glow, who was an evil Pegasus filly wise beyond her years, refused redemption, and ended up being sent to Tartarus. Because the fan work has been stated to reside in an alternate universe to the setting of the show, with other timelines sometimes being shown and the one the show takes place in being referred to as the Heart World, shortly after the season 8 finale, Alexwarlorn, the writer of the Pony POV Series, stated that it was likely that she was in fact that universes counterpart of Cozy Glow.
Edited by bobg on Nov 14th 2018 at 5:12:00 AM
jjj
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Nura
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Honestly, In a franchise filled with Mass Murderers...I really can't see Kamoshida as the epitome of Evil. Like, he counts due to being mundane but calling him the epitome of evil when he lives in the same world as two Omnicidal Maniac? Bizarre.
That is why I really don't propose the Evil Teacher (PE teacher, because is always the PE teacher) from Mahou Shoujo Site. Dude is a rapist that raped his student several times and took pics of her but, well, he lives in a world where Humanoid Abomination kill teenage girls and a crazy teen gives superpowers to criminals. If he did rape more girls, maybe, but no...for now (Weird how the biggest Hate Sink of that series are far from couting, Aya' dad is a ass, but he haven't commited any major crime beyond being a extremly disturbing Abusive Parent).
Nurarihyon
— To ACW: I think that Eudemon Quest would be better overall then.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:38:12 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Nurarihyon
Nurarihyon.
@ Miraculous speaking of The Last Vampire you're still planning to write-up Landulf of Capa right?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I meant to say that
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 14th 2018 at 4:10:46 AM
to Nura.
Most heinous minor CM? Hmm...I'll say Angelo Katagiri. Serial Killer who doubles as a Serial Rapist who rips people from the inside out with his stand and cuts off the penis of a boy he held ransom? Yeaaahhh, I was pretty stunned that he was merely a Starter Villain.
Cioccolatta was also an incredibly nasty guy, though since he and Secco were the penultimate antagonists before Diavolo himself (unless you count Silver Chariot Requiem) and had a very large arc for non-main JoJo villains, I'm not sure how minor he would be.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:50:01 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@G-Editor You mean writing him up? I think he already has EP Landluf and just wait for the rest but can't wait to see his writeup on that.
@Kazuya Ah whoops... think you have a decent point. And yeah, i forgot there is another vile minor C Ms from Happy Sugar Life so thats something to consider.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 14th 2018 at 9:05:07 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
For me the worst minor CM is Scott Niles.
Edited by randomtroper89 on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:05:22 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
P.S. Like Fire Force and Dorohedoro... Dr. Stone is getting an anime adaptation. Dibs!
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Wild Child
Nurari.
"The Juice is Loose."
I'm gonna abstain on Laude.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Oh I also forgot about Funatsu from Future Diary
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Worst minor villain CM? Dr. Gross from adventure time.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Nurarihyon.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Speaking of Gross we also have the one from Attack on Titan.
Gabe and Elichenko from Dance in the Vampire Bund as well. The former? A pedophile who makes child porn. The latter? A Serbian warp criminal, serial rapist and torturer.
Hmm... I guess for me it would be Dickson, being The Dragon to Big Bad Zanza, given that Dickson grooms Shulk into a vessel for Zanza, transforms several High Entia into Tel'lethia. (Assuming he's still on the trope) Or Zant from Twilight Princess, since Ganondorf was shoehorned in the last second and Zant is The Dragon to him, I guess he would count. Those are the only ones I remember proposing that were heinous enough to qualify aside from Hades from Kid Icarus Uprising and Phantom (and to be fair, I didn't write their writeups, I believe I just did a little editing of their current writeups and had someone else finish it for me, thanks by the way whoever did that). I think I suggested more examples than actually proposing them like King Boo from Dark Moon.
Heishin also comes to mind, but he's not really a minor villain. I don't even know if Dragons count as Minor villains.
Edited by Klavice on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:22:06 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Oh to make things moving in the thread, I want to say this: I just finished a manga called OPUS and honestly, the main antagonist the Masque could be an interesting potential candidate. But the main issue is that the story went weird as the chapters goes on considered the manga itself is about how the manga creator suffers a Writer's Block and so many decision he had to choose for his own character in the manga so yeah... I'm a bit torn on this one. But if you ask me, you guys wanted me to see EP Masque or not?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 14th 2018 at 11:26:41 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
@Random Oh neat.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
My most heinous minor villain is probably Big Mouse. Dude’s the second boss of the game, yet he’s a cruel scientist who slaughter an entire city and technically started a zombie apocalypse as a result of his experiments.
"No running in the halls!"