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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#136251: Nov 14th 2018 at 7:45:48 AM

True, but many of Alfman's action were extreme but done out of desperation and ignorance like Replakia and his most heinous act was abandoning Metafalss to die to save himself.

What put Laude's action above Alfman was that he did more. Many of Alfman's crimes you can place it to Laude for being a key figure of the Grand Bell as their head scientist, but Laude went pass Alfman when he was willing to sacrifice a reliable plan to create Metafalice by risking Luca who is needed to summon it, by taking her mother hostage and forcing her to sing a new Heart of the Land which could take Luca's soul and prevent her and Cloche from creating Metafalica. The other is that he showed enjoyment in torturing and experimenting on the Reyvateils, shown in the flashback of Cloche when she was younger after she was kidnapped by the Grand Bell and getting tortured by Laude. Alfman as ruthless and cold, never shown any type of enjoyment and ultimately believe it was for the greater good compared to Laude smiling.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#136252: Nov 14th 2018 at 7:59:35 AM

Okay, Laude still seems bad enough, but motivation doesn't matter when it comes to heinousness.

aquagon Since: Mar, 2011
#136253: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:06:37 AM

[up][up]You've got a large misunderstanding about what happened in the Moon Culvert: the only thing that he needed from Reisha was singing to song to unseal the Heart of the Land in that place, and he only told Reisha he needed to do so to wake Luca up after the Infelsphere Dive that left her comatose as a way to pressure her. He didn't actually need Luca to sing a new Heart in that place.

As for Alfman... What Heroic Sacrifice did he commit? The only thing he did at the end of the game was keep the Divine Army away from the party, and then he ran away from Metafalss to Sol Cluster without telling anyone. That doesn't count as a sacrifice to me.

Edited by aquagon on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:09:16 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#136254: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:08:31 AM

The thing that Aquagon is trying to use as arguments is using the things we learn about Laude in the 3rd game, which shows what he was before the 2nd game. Remember it's always before it, since Laude is already dead by the 3rd game so none of those happened before his monstrous moments. He also uses comparisions, which is a valid point, but no other villain comes close due to being the only sadist among the villains here and I know he might try to use scope to possibly produce an argument for Infel or Targana, but Laude is just an ordinary man who lacks the resources and power of most of the villains, even Alfman , which further shows Laude's heinousness if he's able to catch up to world leaders and god-like powerful Reyvateils.

[up] It doesn't change the fact that Luca's soul could still get trap to the Heart of the Land like when the fake Metafalica was created. As Cocona explained in Ar Tonelico 3, he tried use her friend Luca, and her mother to transform them to another Heart of the Land. While it didn't end up happening and Laude was willing to take the powerful artifact to avoid further trouble, the intention was still there. Also Luca what he said to Reisha was a lie so no good-intention, especially when it was shown there was a way to get it without having to risk the two in the end of the game.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:14:06 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
aquagon Since: Mar, 2011
#136255: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:13:12 AM

[up]Neither Infel or Targana could be classed as monsters, no matter how hard you try looking at it.

And Luca couldn't have gotten absorbed into that Heart because it was already lodging Nenesha's soul and due to the ways the Hearts work. So either Cocona got the events in that explanation wrong, or NISA (unsurprisingly) mistranslated that part of the scene.

Edited by aquagon on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:16:15 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#136256: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:15:37 AM

Never did, just wanted to say it before you bring them up. I just used them to point out how evil Laude has to be to catch-up to their level considering he's only an average man compared to other villains.

EDIT: Heading up to the tower to sing the song to create Metafalica and save their world, Alfman appeared and hold-off an enemy onslaught so they can keep climbing, giving them time to save the world.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Nov 14th 2018 at 8:17:53 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
aquagon Since: Mar, 2011
#136257: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:19:37 AM

[up] And he still ran away like a coward after all was said and done. There's a lot to be said about the reactions Richa and Cloche had when he finally decided to show up again.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#136258: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:21:53 AM

[up] Laude still risk Luca willingly, knowing if she dies or get her soul adsorb by the Heart of the Land it will doom Metafalls and all it's people. Also it's not like Laude knew Nenesha soul was inside the Heart of the Land, which would explain what Cocona said since he still tried it.

Honestly this debate is going nowhere. I think we already brought all the points we've got so let the people decide the verdict.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
aquagon Since: Mar, 2011
#136259: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:25:07 AM

[up]Final thoughts: Laude knew exactly how the Hearts worked (hell, he researched everything about them alongside Jakuri, not finding the parts about the Maiden of Mio between a lack of time and because Infel either sealed away or destroyed all knowledge related to it), and he did know the Heart in the Moon Culvert contained Nenesha's soul, as stated in the game dialogue when he first saw it. The only thing he didn't knew was that Infel would order Raki to attack anyone who tried approaching the Heart after it was unsealed.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#136260: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:25:36 AM

To move this conversation, I just wanted to say this:

@ACW Oh! Btw, someone changed the writeup of the CM from Buddy Complex. Tbh, I kind of prefer the new writeup better. Wanna use that for the main page while still spoil his name.

P.S. Anyone have an issue that I will look on Fire Force and Dorohedoro anime versions on the future?

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 14th 2018 at 11:27:52 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#136261: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:35:51 AM

At this point were just debating the details of the game, rather Laude's actions. However you read how that really played out, nothing really change Laude did actively risk Luca and kidnapped her mother or his previous actions like his willingness to sacrifice Metafalls for the Heart.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#136262: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:41:21 AM

[up][up] The old writeup:

  • Buddy Complex: Bizon Gerafil is a former Zogilian pilot revealed in the final three episodes of the show to have become the new leader of the Zogilian Empire, Evgeni Gedar, after being sent to the past. Before being sent to the past, he had an obsession with his childhood friend, Hina Ryazan, and tried to seek vengeance against his personal enemy, Watase Aoba, because he saw Aoba interacting with Hina. During the fight against Aoba, Bizon then forces Hina to do Coupling, which causes Hina physical pain. After Bizon is sent to the past, it was revealed that Bizon is the pilot who tries to kill Aoba during the first episode, and is planning to seek revenge against Aoba after more than seventy years. To this end, Bizon then overtakes the Zogilian Empire through a Military Coup and orders his soldiers to build a large cannon in space. After Aoba and his companions tries to stop Bizon's plans, Bizon then sacrifices his own men so that he could use the cannon as a test drive, and also to lure in the Alliance members. After one of Bizon's subordinates is disgusted by his actions and tries to arrest him, Bizon then spitefully tries to obliterate the Earth using his cannon in his last moments. Though he once had numerous redeeming qualities in the past, Bizon destroys them all and ultimately became a spiteful, cruel and petty individual that tries to satiate his vengeance for his wounded ego and pride.

The new one:

  • Complete Monster: Evgeni Gedar is a 90-something year-old Bizon Gerafil, a Zogilian pilot sent to the past, revealed in the final three episodes of the show to have become the new leader of the Zogilian Empire under a new name. Even back under his old name, he already had an obsession with his childhood friend, Hina Ryazan, and tried to seek vengeance against his personal enemy, Watase Aoba, because he saw Aoba interacting with Hina. At one point, he then forces Hina to do Coupling, which causes Hina physical pain. After his time-travelling experience, it was revealed that he was the pilot who tries to kill Aoba during the first episode, and is planning to seek revenge against Aoba after more than seventy years. To this end, Evgeni then overtakes the Zogilian Empire through a Military Coup and orders his soldiers to build a large cannon in space. After Aoba and his companions tries to stop his plans, Evgeni then sacrifices his own men so that he could use the cannon as a test drive, and also to lure in the Alliance members. After one of his subordinates is disgusted by his actions and tries to arrest him, Evgeni then spitefully tries to obliterate the Earth using his cannon in his last moments. Though Bizon might have had numerous redeeming qualities, they're all but destroyed by Evgeni, who ultimately had became a spiteful, cruel and petty individual that tries to satiate his vengeance for his wounded ego and pride.

Elfen, Evgeni was yours; you like the new one better? I'll use that then. So, this (I'll leave it spoiler-free for the CM page and completely spoilered on the YMMV page):

  • Buddy Complex: Evgeni Gedar is a 90-something year-old Bizon Gerafil, a Zogilian pilot sent to the past, revealed in the final three episodes of the show to have become the new leader of the Zogilian Empire under a new name. Even back under his old name, he already had an obsession with his childhood friend, Hina Ryazan, and tried to seek vengeance against his personal enemy, Watase Aoba, because he saw Aoba interacting with Hina. At one point, he then forces Hina to do Coupling, causing Hina physical pain. After his time-traveling experience, it was revealed that he was the pilot who tries to kill Aoba during the first episode, and is planning to seek revenge against Aoba after more than seventy years. To this end, Evgeni then overtakes the Zogilian Empire through a Military Coup and orders his soldiers to build a large cannon in space. After Aoba and his companions tries to stop his plans, Evgeni then sacrifices his own men so that he could use the cannon as a test drive, and also to lure in the Alliance members. After one of his subordinates is disgusted by his actions and tries to arrest him, Evgeni then spitefully tries to obliterate the Earth using his cannon in his last moments. Whatever redeeming qualities Bizon might've originally had are obliterated by Evgeni, who ultimately was a spiteful, cruel and petty individual that tries to satiate his vengeance for his wounded ego and pride.

Edited by ACW on Nov 14th 2018 at 12:03:56 PM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#136263: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:50:26 AM

Yeah... Think leaving it spoiled in YMMV page was better given the dude was walking spoiler after all and one of the worst ones I put for now.

[down] P.S. I would love to omit the "had" in "have originally had" part. Other than that, looks good.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 14th 2018 at 11:54:51 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#136264: Nov 14th 2018 at 8:53:55 AM

Yeah, with a CM who's also a Walking Spoiler, that's usually the best option. Ego's another one; completely spoiled on the YMMV page, while on the CM page the only thing I have spoiled is that it was he who killed Meredith.

Hmm, let's go with "might've originally had"

Edited by ACW on Nov 14th 2018 at 12:04:13 PM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#136265: Nov 14th 2018 at 9:14:21 AM

Gentlemen, I am going to take a break from posting here. I had a misunderstanding with another user (won't reveal who that was) and I feel it is better if I just take a break. So you won't see me for the next two weeks at least. Bye.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#136266: Nov 14th 2018 at 9:24:39 AM

Have a nice break

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#136267: Nov 14th 2018 at 9:59:39 AM

I found this unapproved entry on To Kill a Dragon

  • Complete Monster: The Dragon kills his own guards on a whim, gruesomely injures Friedrichsen per Groin Attack, then order his son killed on the off-chance that the latter will want to avenge his father after growing up. Each year, he rapes an innocent girl to death.

Yeesh...So according to the main page he kills and rapes people for fun. Anyone famlair with this movie to give him an ep

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#136268: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:02:49 AM

[up] I'll put that on my to-do list.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:10:48 AM

It's Spooky Month!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#136269: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:02:53 AM

Okay, so it's been two weeks since the finale of the most recent Atop the Fourth Wall story arc, and there's definitely some things to discuss.

"The Clone Saga" involves a clone of Linkara arriving at his house, with no memory of who he is or where he came from. To make a long story short, it's revealed that the clone is actually Mechakara. After the events of the AT4W movie, Mechakara was revived by the lingering effects of the Plot Hole, but traces of his human disguise turned him human. Mechakara was found by Mirrorkara (more on him in a moment) and transported to Linkara's house to catch Linkara off-guard. At first, Mechakara focused on figuring out who he really was, but once he regained his memory, he completely lost it. Horrified that he was now a human and driven mad by his constant defeats, Mechakara carved his face to find some traces of his original face and held Erin hostage to lure Linkara to him. He and Linkara eventually fought, but Mechakara fled and just begged that Linkara and Mirrorkara would both kill each other.

So, Mechakara looks like he's back to cause some harm. I'm not sure he does anything bad enough to add to his entry just yet, but he's most likely going to show up again in the future. He stays for the moment.

Now for the real villain of the arc, Mirrorkara. He's a version of Linkara who hails from a Mirror Universe, and while he was played for laughs in his previous appearences, he's taken as a more serious threat here. After his last fight with Linkara, he was accidentally sent to a universe where Eldritch Abominations ran rampant. He adopted Erin, who was orphaned by the attacks, and became her abusive mentor. Many years later, he returned and sent Erin to spy on Linkara in order to find the perfect opportunity to gain his revenge. He planned to torture Linkara to death and take his place, tarnishing his name while taking over his universe.

Mirrorkara is a lot more threatening compared to his earlier apperances, but I don't think he passes the heinous standard by the series. The worst thing he does in the story was kidnapping a clone Dr. Linksano made of Linkara and torturing him to death as practice for the real one, but that's entirely offscreen. He doesn't have the onscreen crimes as Mechakara or Lord Vyce, with the worst thing being his verbal abuse of Erin and telling her to leave her Robot Buddy to die. Compared with other villains, he's relatively low on the scale and his eventual fate at the hands of Moarte suggest he's not going to reappear any time soon.

I'm still keeping an eye on the show, and will keep you guys updated when Mechakara shows up again.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#136270: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:05:09 AM

Mind if I check it, Jackie? It’s alresdy on my list.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#136271: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:10:12 AM

[up] Go right ahead.

Now then.

What Is the Work?

Resident Evil: Degeneration is a 2008 CGI animated film based on the Resident Evil series that takes place a year after Resident Evil 4.

The dreaded t-virus is unleashed inside of a massive airport, the same one Claire Redfield just so happened to be in. With the help of Leon S. Kennedy and newcomer Angela Miller, Claire does whatever she can to stop the virus and rescue the survivors, though all isn’t as it seems, as the new vaccine company WilPharma may me involved in the whole debacle.

Now this is a spoiler candidate, so be warned.

Who Is he?

Dr. Frederic Downing (voiced by Crispin Freeman) is a greedy, British scientist working for WilPharma, and while he appears to be a kind gentleman willing to help Claire deal with the virus, he’s later revealed to be far more sinister.

What has he done?

Having worked as a researcher for Umbrella Corps during the Raccoon City outbreak, he managed to escape and snag the t and G viruses right before the city was nuked. Wanting to sell the viruses on the black market, he found out that he needed to create a vaccine in order to bundle them with the viruses in order to to make the viruses into controllable, and more profitable, bioweapons. So, he joined WilPharma in order to create these vaccines, while also unleashing several viruses onto India and other Eastern countries, then having his men use the vaccine on them in front of a film crew. These incidents aren’t because he wants to help, or feels guilty about his involvement: they’re pitch videos meant to be shown to possible buyers that showcase the power of the viruses and how to control them.

However, there was Curtis Miller, a member of WilPharma who wanted to reveal the truth about the Raccoon City incident to the public and attempt to prevent further outbreaks. Taking advantage of the protester’s ambitions, Frederic provided Curtis with the G-virus, which allowed him to use Curtis as a scapegoat. Frederic also decided to partner with corrupt senator Ron Davis (who looks and sounds like a non-Southern Alex Jones), who shared stocks with WilPharma, and had no idea that WilPharma were involved in these zombie outbreaks.

Wanting to create another pitch video for an evil general named Miguel Grandé, he injected one of his men with the t-virus and sent him to the Harvardville Airport via airplane, resulting in a zombie outbreak that leads to the deaths of many men, women, and children. When WilPharma arrives to provide vaccines for the survivors, Frederic has the trucks carrying the vaccine blown up in order to disguise the whole incident as a terrorist attack, while also pinning the blame Ron Davis for his involvement. When he invites Claire to a massive WilPharma building, he leaves her in a room while he escapes, sets a time bomb that destroys the building and its people, all while pinning the blame on Curtis Miller, who arrives. He injects Miller with the G-virus in order to capture security footage of his transformation, not caring that doing so results in the death of many innocent soldiers and the possible deaths of Claire, Leon, and Angela.

Managing to escape the explosion, he prepares his footage of the airport incident, the vaccines, and Miller’s transformation for General Grandé. That is until Claire, Leon, and Angela arrive. Cornered by the trio at gunpoint, he begs for his life by attempting to offer them money from his scheme, but of course that doesn’t work. He’s then arrested for good.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. His plans to create a vaccine are because he couldn’t sell the virus without one, meaning he had to create it both as a necessity, and so the virus can be easier to control, and thus make him more money.

Heinousness?

While he’s going up against everyone else in the games, Frederic still stands out as an evil scientist who’s greed incarnate. Curtis Miller is a Tragic Monster who loves his sister, even after he's transformed into a monster. Ron Davis, while a massive Jerkass, is shown to not approve of the idea of a zombie incident, and tells Claire with sincerity that he would never have done such a thing, not matter how corrupt he is. General Grandé himself serves as the Greater-Scope Villain, and isn't seen.

As for the other CGI films, no one in those counts, as the antagonists are either Affably Evil, or an Anti-Villain.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:14:05 AM

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#136272: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:15:32 AM

[tup]Downing

Would this be the final Resident Evil CM ? We've really discussed that franchise at this point that I'm not sure anyone else is heinous enough and doesnt have mitigating qulaities that isn't listed already.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 14th 2018 at 10:16:22 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#136273: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:18:20 AM

[tup] Downing.

I was still a kid when i watched this movie for the first time with my RE-obsessed aunt, the airport scenes used to creep me out.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 14th 2018 at 4:23:12 PM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#136275: Nov 14th 2018 at 10:31:26 AM

Sure to Downing. This is Freeman's second CM at least, as he also voiced Sundowner.

EDIT: Hmm, I guess we'll group this with the Light Novel at the AniManga page and mpve it, since it's currently under B for Bio Hazard.

Edited by ACW on Nov 14th 2018 at 1:38:38 PM


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