During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kohtaro... How many KR candidates have yet to be EP?
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Edvard
Goku Black
No one else I can think off from the show at least. I might revelaute Johnny Maxima/ Gamedus Red one day but he might have weird agency issues from what Ive read on him. Crow was thibking Takashi Sugumri /Kamen Rider Arc from Kamen Rider Kiva: King of the Castle in the Demon World, but uh were not 100 percent on him.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
It's almost as if this series doesn't believe in subtlety with villains whatsoever.
...oh, what am I even being sarcastic for? It's tokukatsu.
Lord of Hell
Well, here’s the write up for King Cold. I’ll have him go above Kanchapp.
I also decided not to propose the fanfic's version of Cell since his entry would mostly just be a copy-paste of his entry on Dragon Ball page. I'm fine with proposing interpretations of villains with nearly the same crimes as their canon counterparts if their canon counterpart isn't a CM (see movie Crocodile) but I personally feel it's pointless if the canon counterpart's already a CM and the interpretation has nearly no new added crimes.
- The Fall of Lord Frieza:
- King Cold proves to be far worse than he is in canon. The tyrannical head of the Planet Trade Organization, King Cold becomes furious when he finds his wife attempting to convince Frieza not to follow in his footsteps. As a result, he brutally beat her before vaporizing her body, lying to Frieza and Cooler that she died of illness. He then intentionally molded Frieza and Cooler into becoming the cruel tyrants they grew up to be, repeatedly beating them in the process. Upon finding out about Frieza’s defeat at the hands of Goku, King Cold is angered at the blow to his family’s pride, and attempts to destroy Earth out of spite alongside Cooler. When he escapes from hell, King Cold decides to wipe out all other races in the galaxy before being stopped by a redeemed Frieza. When Frieza challenges King Cold, Cold attempts to kill Frieza without remorse. Despite King Cold claiming to do what’s best for his children, he only cares if they prove to be ruthless tools for his benefit.
- General Kanchapp is a traitorous general within the Planet Trade Oragnization. Wishing to take over the empire, Kanchapp convinces the majority of the army to aid him in a rebellion against the Cold family, falsely promising them the liberation of their races while intending to be just as cruel a tyrant as Cold and his sons were. When he finds out about the life sapping Tree of Might, Kanchapp murders a group of space pirates for the tree, intending to have it spread across the galaxy knowing that this will wipe out life on countless planets. Kanchapp eventually leads an assault on Frieza's home planet, Arcos, with the intent of killing Frieza and all those who remain loyal to him. During Kanchapp's fight with Frieza, he kills several of his own men before destroying Arcos right in front of him just to hurt Frieza. Even when defeated, Kanchapp mocks Frieza before dying by saying that Frieza lost everything important to him.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Nov 9th 2018 at 5:04:09 AM
Goku Black
Uh wouldny say every bad guy is like that . We have plenty of Anti-Villain's and morally grey characters. Shadow moon, Night Rogue,Parado, Heart Rodimude, etc.
Though a true standout would Be Sagitarius Zodiart of Kamen Rider Fourze. He treats his minions well and even seemed upset of having to pull usefulness outlived shtick. Accepts his death with diginity and even shakes the hand of the hero in true Villain Respect fashion. Mind you he also wants to wipe out most of humanity as he be lives that humanity needs to evolve but uh this franchise has stuff like that happen all the time. Ill probably ep as a Magnificent Bastard one day.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Silverblade 2 Well, Both Kamen Rider and Dungeons & Dragons are in race when it comes to founding new candidates so thats something to consider. But even then, not all villains in there are CM like Mir said.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
Anymore votes on the Shagnasty quotes. (That's the best CM name there.)
on the quotes
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the quotes.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Kohtaro, Edvard. Anticlimactic-sounding defeats for both by the way.
Goku Black
Oh right Todays the discussion date for Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. I think Lighty reserve it and said there was somone worth talking about
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Here are the Bond film de-potholes:
- Moonraker: Hugo Drax is a cold, snobbish, understated executive who wishes to exterminate the human race, except for those he considers "superior beings". To this end, Drax captures men and women whom he sees as physically perfect, planning to keep these people in his giant space station while he covers the earth in a rare toxin that will kill every human being on Earth. When one of his Moonraker space shuttles is hijacked, Bond is sent to investigate. Fearing that Bond will discover his plans, Drax sends his assassins to kill him, not doing the job himself because he wants Bond's death to amuse him. When he discovers that his personal pilot, Corrine Dufour, helped Bond uncover his plan, he fires her, then sends his dogs out to rip her apart. After he tells Bond his plan, he traps him and one of his scientists, Dr. Holly Goodhead, under one of his rockets, planning on burning the both of them. When he discovers Bond and Goodhead on his space station, he threatens to shoot them both out the airlock. When Bond corners him after his plans are failing, Drax finds a gun and threatens to shoot him, knowing that he'll at least "have the pleasure of putting [Bond] out of my misery". Drax is a chilling, dark villain who stands out in such a campy, silly movie.
- A View to a Kill: Max Zorin is by far one of the most psychopathic villains Bond has ever come across. A French-German microchip tycoon who used to work for the KGB after he and his mentor, Dr. Carl Mortner, real name Hans Glaub, were whisked out of defeated Nazi Germany by the Soviets, he goes rogue to pursue his own plans for domination. His plot involves triggering an earthquake to flood Silicon Valley so his tech company can get a monopoly on the world's supply of microchips, killing millions of people in the process. He drops a businessman to his death when the latter disagrees with Zorin's plan, throws a captured spy into an underwater fan to be ground to mush, and kills the San Francisco mayor before blaming Bond for the murder and leaving him and Stacy behind to die in a fire. He's so psychotic that he gleefully machine guns his own mine workers to death and betrays his lover and henchwoman May Day, all of whom were nothing but loyal to him. When his plan is eventually foiled, he goes berserk as he tries to hack Bond and Stacy up with an axe in a fight atop the Golden Gate Bridge.
- Tomorrow Never Dies: Elliot Carver is a media mogul and head of the Carver Media Group Network. The actions of himself and his group range from releasing software with bugs in order to require constant updates, releasing stories about mad cow disease involving a British beef baron who lost money to Carver in poker and keeping those stories running after getting paid by the French, blackmailing the President to sign a bill only to release the tape anyway, and causing "floods in Pakistan, riots in Paris and a plane crash in California". His latest and most heinous project involves sinking a ship and killing the survivors, sinking a Chinese jet, and attempting to use a stolen British missile to destroy Beijing, leading to World War III; all of this is so he can gain exclusive broadcast rights in China. When James Bond investigates this, he murders his wife when she gets too close to Bond and orders the brutal torture of Bond and Wai Lin by Richard Stamper. Already a wealthy man, Carver is willing to cause millions of deaths just to satisfy his greed.
- Spectre: Franz Oberhauser, real name Ernst Stavro Blofeld, was once a sociopathic boy who murdered his own father for loving a young, orphaned James Bond the Oberhauser family took in. Faking his own death and adopting his new name, Oberhauser built up the criminal organization SPECTRE, which finances and facilitates terrorism around the globe, allies with interested parties to topple governments, prolong civil wars, horde natural resources, and eventually involves itself in the sex trade where hundreds of thousands of women and children are trafficked to feed SPECTRE's accounts. Oberhauser gleefully reveals himself as the architect of James's pain, having arranged various events to result in the deaths of Bond's friends, and loved ones. He was also the one behind Raoul Silva, having wanted M herself to die to hurt Bond. With Bond himself, Oberhauser has small needles drilled into his head to torture him and even threatens to steal his ability to recognize faces by drilling in the right place. When this fails, Oberhauser holds Bond's Love Interest in a rigged chamber—also forcing her to watch the footage of her father committing suicide—so Bond must either try to save her and die in an explosion, or abandon her to save himself and live with the shame of it. Obsessed with destroying his stepbrother and devoted only to his own massive megalomania and eagerness to condemn the world to chaos or tyranny if it suits his purposes, Oberhauser is the ultimate villain of the rebooted chronology to date.
Gentle Laborer
@Silver From the live action franchise? None at the moment. Like Mir said, i had Arc from the Kiva movie but this guy might a little too similar to the show's Big Bad, and is very likely not as heinous as him.
Kohtaro the Demon King.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think one thing that helps Kamen Rider is, and correct me if I'm wrong, not all of them take place in the same universe. Otherwise we'd probably have to cut a whole bunch of them.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah the franchise has ridiculous amounts of separate universes, which also include sub-universes with their own characters for book, manga or movie adaptations.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:12:40 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Kohtaro, Edvard
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Next up for pothole removal: Fire Emblem; Arrowverse, Sonic.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Hey there, I have a bit of what could be considered some good news. So yesterday, I was able to get around to watching The Nutcracker ad the Four Realms, so I should definitely be ready to post something by next week on the discussion date. Granted, it may be later in the day since I'm pretty sure I'll be busy with something else early on. Believe it or not, there's actually someone in it that shows at least a little potential here, but frankly, I'm not terribly confident they'll actually count. Nonetheless, I may do an EP anyway just to get some more experience, as well as some other opinions to be absolutely sure.
As for the movie itself, I actually found it fairly enjoyable. Yes, pretty much everything in it has been done by Disney before, and in ways that came together better, and it honestly felt too short to go into the kind of details and world-building that could have made it more fleshed out, memorable, and possibly even a potential classic in its own right. But nonetheless, among other things, it was pretty well-acted, had a respectably diverse cast, some surprisingly decent bits of humor, as well as a couple of solid twists/reveals, and of course, genuinely positive and healthy messages. Then again, I've always had a soft spot for films that are at least mostly family-friendly and have positive messages in them, and I'll take films like that that are only decent to sort of good any day over films that are considered great, but have so much filthy content that they feel like an assault on the senses.
On another note, it's funny that I just saw some de-potholed posts for some of the James Bond villains, because it just so happens I just thought of a question regarding Max Zorin. Now, A View To a Kill is one of the fewer Bond films I haven't seen yet, but from both what I've read and heard about him, Max is easily among the worst and most psychotic antagonists in the whole franchise. However, the one that thing that concerns me from what I read somewhere, is that that he might show care, maybe even love, for his adoptive father, Hans Glaub. Is this true? If anything, I'm actually hoping this isn't a redeeming quality since otherwise, and like with some other near-misses, it would be quite annoying if he had that single positive point that doesn't really add any depth or dimensions to his character. Nonetheless, I thought I should ask about it just to make sure because of how strict people here are about anything considered even slightly "mitigating". Hopefully, it's just a very generic rapport or sense of shared ideals that doesn't really stand for anything positive?
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Nov 10th 2018 at 7:31:07 AM
Alright, Devoted, please use the search function, Zorin's affection to his father figure is not mitigating and there has been ample discussion on that topic. Not trying to shut you down or anything but it's come up enough times that I'm sure you can find reference to it.
Yeah. Zorin has an functiinal relationship with him but there’s no genuine love there that I remember.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Something that's recently been nagging me about Zorin, from his page:
- Freudian Excuse: The reason why Zorin is sociopathic to begin with is because he's the end result of a Nazi Super Breeding Program during WWII, in which pregnant women were injected with massive amounts of steroids in an attempt to create "super-children" for the Nazis. While most of the pregnancies failed, the few babies that survived grew to become extraordinarily intelligent later in life — but also totally psychopathic.
I’ve been over this before. It makes him a sociopath yes....but Mayday was a subject as well and while not a good person, she has sympathetic qualities and does a full face turn, even sacrificing her life to buy James time to stop Zorin
We've discussed this. Numerous times.
I'd like to also add here, Devoted, because I am sensing a recurring pattern here every time you bring these candidates or these questions we've already answered before... this is nothing personal against you, but please get into the habit of using the search engine more regularly and — pertinent to mention here because you do sometimes have to dig a bit — more thoroughly. We're not particularly fans of hitting the same beats.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 9th 2018 at 7:39:13 AM
