During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
We've voted literally every single one of those villains down before except the ones from Venom, who were listed weeks ago. This isn't how you propose new examples for the thread and I'd advise you to read the Administrivia page before proceeding with any other suggestions/alterations.
Goku Black
Didnt we down vote like all of these guys except the Venom duo.
Most there aren't heinous enough, played seriosuly and a few have redeeming qualities. So there not great examples of this.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 9th 2018 at 1:29:18 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Particularly, everyone who's not already listed on the Dragon Ball page? Doesn't count. We have had a Wheel of Time book's worth of discussion on every other villain there (even this one for some reason) and I doubt there's anything left to be said that hasn't been already.
"I'm very surprised characters like Cooler, Broly (From the Broly Trilogy, not the new movie coming out), Garlic Junior, Bojack and Turles aren't there as they are god examples of Complete Monsters."
No they aren't. DB has an extraordinarily high heinous standard and none of those movie baddies stand out, especially next to guys like Frieza, Buu and Zamasu.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I don't think Mia Sutton was discussed.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Goku Black
Im wondering could we add DB to the never again list. In the sense that all previus badguys have been disucssed to death. We could make a note that when new material comes, than we can discuss that but alll the old stuff is no longer available for discussion
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I vote No to putting Them on the never again list. As from what I've seen its usually just been people Who have yet to see the debates themselves
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Mia came up when we were discussing the movie after the two weeks had passed and I believe again when Ryuk was brought up. She doesn't count either.
Honestly, the only reason I'd be against putting Dragon Ball on the Never Again list is that it's still regularly putting out new material, be it through Super, the movies, the games, what-have-you, that a new candidate wouldn't really be out of the ordinary... still, though, if we clarify it is for the older stuff exclusively? I'd be willing to subscribe to that.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 9th 2018 at 3:24:07 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I should note the new troper was simply curious as to why they didnt count.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
well. I'm off too bed. Goodnight every one
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 9th 2018 at 2:47:17 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
SDN: I wouldn't be opposed to combining them.
Also, Scraggle: Seems like ''Castlevania" is gonna have a ridiculous heinous standard.
Edited by ACW on Nov 9th 2018 at 6:08:02 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah I couldn't believe that Bear Thuef one. Emperor Pilaf is more heinous than him.
I agree with Scraggle's conclusions on Netflixvania and only when reading it did I realise Godbrand mostly exists to give Isaac someone to Worf. Ah, Godbrand, I still love you, you absolute creep.
@Silverblade 2 @Kylotrope Diavolo does indeed have some level of contempt towards Cioccolata but that doesn't mean he isn't above unleashing him upon the protagonists, knowing full well that it would result in mass casualties, so I'd say that too is too ambiguous to count. He most likely hates Cio because of his recklessness that is bound to get them both in trouble (as Diavolo wants to erase his past and not attract any unwanted attention), combined with his questionable loyalty and overall senseless cruelty that contradicts with Diavolo's more pragmatic approach.
V
I found this on Planet Hulk:
- Complete Monster: Angmo-Asan is the Red King. When the Hulk first challenged him, he first casually kills off the rest of a gladiatorial bout's survivors (save for Miek); and, after Hulk gains the upper hand, he sends his guards on him and shoots him in the back. Later, we see him firsthand casually ordering the death of all people who say something against his high tributes and dismissing the complaints of his peasants, because he doesn't see them as anything more than animals. During the second Arena Fight of Hulk and his Warbound, he decides to screw the rules and tries to nuke them (together with the whole audience), which only fails because Hulk contains the blast. He even attempts to make them kill one of their Warbound-members via Mind Rape. After the heroes confront him with his crimes, he doesn't even care one bit, rolls his eyes and smugly proclaims: "Yes. I killed them. As is my Right. As is my Duty. As is my Pleasure." And when he is finally defeated, he attempts to destroy the whole planet in response. The only way to make him remotely good was shown later when they made him into a cyborg and programmed him into behaving. Plus, Caeira's flashback of him as a child. In the comic, he saves her life but immediately enslaves her. In the animated film, she offers her loyalty willingly but the kid Red King turns out to have been still just as villainous when he reveals he ordered the Spike attack on Caiera's village specifically so he could capture her.
This has to be an old entry or something because it is one of the worst writeups I've seen. So, therefore, it needs a rewrite. I might do one later this week unless someone else does it.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It's at the Marvel page, but go for it. I do believe it is an old entry though.
EDIT: So what to do with the SMT entries? Besides de-potholing, it appears Jack's original entry had a factual error.
Edited by ACW on Nov 9th 2018 at 11:36:10 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Filthy casual
ACW told me to mention it here. There's an unapproved entry on YMMV.The Great Brain. It was added back in 2013, though. Would it be worth PMing the troper about it?
Edited by TheUnsquished on Nov 9th 2018 at 5:29:24 PM
(Annoyed grunt)
Goku Black
For anyone wondering. The entry :
- Complete Monster: Cal Roberts; in a series whose conflicts usually involve rivalries between kids, or said kids trying to avoid getting caught breaking rules, he's a multiple murderer whose plan involves taking a small child hostage (there's an illustration of him holding a gun to the kid's head) and killing him anyway after he's served his purpose.
This is from a...childrens book
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Filthy casual
I should have added that. Sorry.
(Annoyed grunt)
If Cal Roberts murders are onscreen or if there is something there to establish the pattern than I can definitely see him counting. Heck, threatening a kid at gunpoint sounds pretty vile for the setting on it's own.
Edited by username2527 on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:09:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, does anyone know the work? Not the best written entry, but dude could be a keeper.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Oh hey, I'm actually familiar with the Great Brain books! Haven't read them in years, but if memory serves Cal Roberts would be a solid keeper. The guy's pretty much a murderous outlaw played dead straight in a slice of life children's series, and was aiming to murder a four year old in cold blood purely to spite his father among other things. I'll put him on my to-do list.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:21:46 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"aiming to murder a four year old in cold blood purely to spite his father among other things."
...This from a CHILDREN'S series? Yeah, I think that alone is bad enough.
EDIT: For SMT, I'll just de-pothole the originals (except for Jack, for which I'll use the rewrite)?
Edited by ACW on Nov 9th 2018 at 1:28:08 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Cal sounds like a definite keep. ESPECIALLY given he's from a slice of life kid series.
also I've been told that attempted actions still count.
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:39:35 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Well, forget ye not that the various projects from the DC Animated Universe were all technically kids stuff, and look what they got away with putting in there. Several successful candidates for this very trope come from there.
Hi there, my first time trying to get Complete Monster entries on this website. I have done a few for All the Tropes Wiki, my examples include Evil Morty from Rick and Morty, Carlton Drake and Riot from Venom (2018), Mia Sutton from Netflix's Death Note and Quintessa from Transformers The Last Knight. So if you see those characters on the Complete Monster pages on that wiki, those are mine.
Anyway, my suggestion is that I think that for the Dragon Ball Complete Monster page, there needs to be examples from the movies. It really bugs me than none of the Movie Villains aren't there. Sure, you can say they aren't there because their not canon, but that's looking at it as if adaptations aren't relevant.
I'm very surprised characters like Cooler, Broly (From the Broly Trilogy, not the new movie coming out), Garlic Junior, Bojack and Turles aren't there as they are god examples of Complete Monsters.