During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I gotta catch up on both of your works but I've loved what I've read from both so far and look forward to reading the joint 
Also... subtle villain CM? I'd agree with Elfen about the CM-MB crossovers and I'd add my own Carnegie and Scraggs' recent Facilier to it.
Yes, been looking forward to announcing the merge of Lighty and I's fictional universes for a while. Enjoy all who care to read.
Anyways, for... "subtle" Monsters? The term is kind of vaguely defined there... like, Wraith, as Elfen blowing up the moon, is one I'd disagree as being subtle in any regard. Blowing up the moon isn't really "subtle."
But, uh... in terms of just Monsters who were a surprise viewing the work, as seems to be what's being asked? Facilier's up there, yeah, considering it's taken us years to give him a proper litigation.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Lightysnake @Scraggle I got both notifications from you guys that you will make another story and is a frigging crossover. Not sure if I will read it though but I'll try
@Scraggle Sorry about that but ah well cant blame em :P Another favorite subtle CM... Thats a hard one tbh unless if you count CM-MB crossover. For another non CM-MB crossover... Arty comes close I guess but due to the sick shit that he pulls? Yeah...
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 8th 2018 at 1:25:15 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
@Scraggle As said before I mean villains you don't think qualify at first til you actually think of it. And as I listed before on adventure time The lich is a rather obvious example whereas Dr. Gross is a much more subtle example. You don't think of her as one at first But she really counts when you think of her actions and Persoanlity.
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 7th 2018 at 10:28:09 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's what I thought. So yes, Facilier probably tops my chart.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
And I could see why.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Oh that... I never considered Robert Marsh as a CM until Lighty E Pd him and so does Vilgax. Same with 1990!Dakki (Because I mistake her as the hero's Love Interest?). Though shes not the one you would call subtle.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ah yeah! Grubster is a nice example.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 8th 2018 at 1:32:54 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Hans Gruber is probably going to be my overall number one but Mars from Hostage was one I was glad to re-litigate last year.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Clown and Dracula
Abstain on pink rabbit.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Oh an that villain I was planning to make an EP for? I found out were only half way passed the "2 weeks" limit. So I'll have to wait a bit(actually this gives some time to make sure his EP is well written so Thats good) Anyways I'll just say it. The charachter I'm writing an EP for is Spades king(Or just "king") from DELTARUNE/Undertale 2.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Warthog's got Deltarune reserved, and that I imagine includes the demo. Check again.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Oh apologies then. Thank God I saw the "two week limit" and decided to stop Thanks for informing me.
Edit:Probably for the best as he's better at writing E Ps then me. Guess I'll just ask to help discuss with him on it.
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 8th 2018 at 12:16:08 PM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Pink Rabbit
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the Clown. Where will he go?
Kazuya: Maybe? I'm not familiar with the work, but I can move the Snake to the Music page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Count Dracula and the Clown.
to the Pink Rabbit.
Subtle CM? I suppose their is Billy Capra, he was so different to majority of antagonists, so minor and early on that he completely forgot about him.
From the same series, I suppose their is also Leo Taymor. Its weird, his episode is one of my favourites and on reflection its obvious he counts. But I guess I was so caught up in how awesome it was to watch the hero duelling a giant crocodile beast with a flail, that I would never have considered proposing him.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Though, speaking of Constance, a de-potholing:
- The Haunted Mansion: Constance Hatchaway is a malevolent ghost in a house full of playful spirits. Constance is The Bride with a Past, as in life she was a Gold Digger that married wealthy men, and then killed them by beheading them with a hatchet. She spent her adult life marrying and killing over a period of many years until she married George Hightower, the owner of the titular mansion. After marrying and killing him, she decided to settle down in her newly inherited mansion and flaunt her wealth. She eventually died and became a ghost. Seeing no more reason for money, she decided to fully embrace her sadistic love of killing and began attacking and killing others, including other ghosts, who she could kill by beheading because she actually died on the property. Many ghosts fell victim to this until they locked her in the attic. In the ride, guests are confronted by her before escaping out the window. She openly admits to her crimes and has yet to be defeated or destroyed.
Pink rabbit
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Speaking of Disney, I'm not sure if this was ever answered: Should the Disney Animated Canon entries be ordered by release date instead of alphabetically?
Also, since it is technically Disney, should Broadway!Scar's entry, besides being at Other Media, also be added to the Disney page (it can go under "Other")? I think so myself.
EDIT: Was Paula approved?
Edited by ACW on Nov 8th 2018 at 7:02:12 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Yeah.
She got like 8 - 9 up votes and no down votes.
Edit: put me down as a on the Pink Rabbit
Edited by miraculous on Nov 8th 2018 at 5:54:25 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Actually switching my abstain on Pink Rabbit to .
Goku Black
@acw: Forum Warz now has its own page. Cross wick the wnrey we have for Purifying Selector 88 in Monster.Other Media. Actually since its a video game, should we move the entry to the video game pages
Edited by miraculous on Nov 8th 2018 at 4:48:10 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Switching to no on Pink Rabbit.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lizzid people!
Yeah, I'll give a no on Pink Rabbit, all things considered.
Lord of Hell
Switching to abstain on Pink Rabbit
Those all sound good as well. Especially Dick Hardly
Edit:That story is..pretty creepy from what I've seen so far. Unfortunately while I enjoy reading about cosmic horror and such..I strangely lack the same enthusiasm for actually reading it.
Edited by Kylotrope on Nov 7th 2018 at 10:16:11 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here