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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#135026: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:01:23 PM

@Kazuya: That sounds like he might've been lying and blaming Ayaka's death on a monster perhaps.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#135027: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:02:03 PM

@ACW The Count genuinely loved his daughter and thus cannot count, even sacrificing himself rather than his own daughter when the opportunity given by the God Hand arises. Mozgus is a massive Knight Templar but even he doesn't count because of his few genuine Pet the Dog moments (taking in deformed and abandoned people as his servants) and in the end, he was more or less a Well-Intentioned Extremist. He could count otherwise as he is rather unique when compared to Griffith/Femto, Wyald and Ganishka.

[down][down] You could say so. Griffith sacrificed his mercenary band for power and raped Casca while forcing Guts to watch because of enviousness, Wyald is a mass rapist and mass murderer and Ganishka has his entire city turned into a literal Hell where dismembered and beheaded bodies are everywhere. Mozgus is responsible for torturing hundreds of innocents in the name of God but Count doesn't even meet his standard as he has fewer on-screen tortures which aren't even nearly as agonizing as the ones Mozgus committed. Baron of Koka Castle has even less on-screen tortures and atrocities as Count so you could say that some of the villains end up being far worse than the previous ones encountered.

Edited by Kookosbanaani on Nov 3rd 2018 at 11:14:34 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135028: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:03:33 PM

"Teodora turns Medusa into stone by showing her a selfie she took."

Well gorgons in ficton seem to have this weird thing were there own gaze reflected back is able to destroy them. Like the only work, I know off were that doesnt work is InCryptid where their immune to there own gaze.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#135029: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:04:19 PM

[up][up] And the Baron simply fails the heinous standard when compared to the three current keepers (not including Vlad here)?

[up] This is true. I think Pericles used his shield. But a selfie? That's...different [lol]

Edited by ACW on Nov 3rd 2018 at 5:04:58 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#135030: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:20:17 PM

@ACW, Teodora also tossed her in the pool of lava after turning her into stone. I would have mentioned that in the EP.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#135031: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:25:08 PM

That makes sense.

But my original concern: Did she think Leo was the mayor breaking his word?

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#135032: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:29:38 PM

Possibly. It's not made clear though.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135034: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:33:28 PM

So anymore votes on my suggested quotes.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#135035: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:34:21 PM

Hmm, if it's not clear, I'll abstain then. Sorry dude (though it looks like there'll be enough votes regardless).

Edited by ACW on Nov 3rd 2018 at 5:38:23 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#135036: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:34:49 PM

[tup] to Captain Grizzletusk and Medusa.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#135038: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:44:46 PM

I'll give a yes, and I have an EP now...now, we've seen EP's from this series before: Mithgar. It's a fantasy world with a history going back millennia. Mithgar's primary defining event is its Lord Of the Rings-ish trilogy, the Iron Tower, AKA: The War of the Ban when the forces of its Morgoth expy, Gyphon were defeated and his chief servant Modru (who is not Sauron, why do you ask?) was defeated.

Mithgar has a lot of different cultures, with elves, dwarves, dragons, etc....and Gyphon remains trapped in his realm, forever seeking to return to Mithgar to corrupt it. The final book of the Myth Arc is Silver Wolf, Black Falcon...the heroes are Aravan, an elven warrior who fought in the war of the Ban, and Bair, the Impossible Child..the first half-elf in the world, son of an elven woman and her human husband, who hunted Mithgar CM Baron Bela Stoke to his final end....now Gyphon is one I'm...split on. He doesn't get much character, with scant appearances, but the finale features two very nasty villains: The first is Ydral, the father of the aforementioned Bela Stoke and a long-running villain in the series. I will handle Ydral next, but first is Ydral's human proxy who goes wildly offscript...Kutsen Yong, Lord of the Golden Horde, the Dragonking.

Who is Kutsen Yong?

Born of a dead woman, Kutsen Yong was raised in the far east to command barbarian tribes...when he was born, Ydral arrived, knowing that the prophecy of Gyphon's return would be heralded by a child born of a dead woman...Ydral became the tutor of Kutsen Yong, raising him to greatness and to command the Golden Horde...also inducting him into the worship of Gyphon. Kutsen Yong proceeds to beleive he is the chosen of Gyphon and slowly unites the tribes via gruesome and bloody campaigns.

Then...when the time is right, the Golden Horde sweeps over the east like a tide of death. Countless, countless innocents are butchered by the Horde,with cities taken, razed and people tortured and impaled. Nobody is too old or too young for this and Kutsen Yong gleefully presides over mass slaughters coupled with hellish dystopias where people are executed almost at random. Kutsen Yong takes over one major city so Ydral can find the artifact he's hunting: the Dragonstone. The Dragonstone, in effect, gives you power over the soul of the ruler of dragons and forces the Dragons themselves to obey your power. Oh, and also, to help empower Ydral? Kutsen Yong has mass graves' worth of prisoners given to the evil necromancer to torture to death, while also erecting temples to Gyphon that are sanctified with massive amounts of blood sacrifice. When the Dragonstone is found, Kutsen Yong takes it himself and begins having the dragons burn down enemy armies and civilian regions. He also sends Ydral to go star consecrating more temples to gyphon, enraging Ydral who is starting to get really, really sick of Kutsen Yong and his egomania...not least of which because Ydral was directly promised by Gyphon that he and not Kutsen Yong would be the one to reign over the world upon Gyphon's return (hey, if you can't trust the God of Evil, who can you trust, guys?) However, unable to challenge Kutsen Yong openly at this point given the Dragonstone, Ydral abandons him and begins working to free Gyphon and get the apocalypse going.

Kutsen Yong, however, is informed of Mithgar and is enraged there are lands with a man who styles himself High King...putting himself on Kutsen Yong's level. Leading the Golden Horde, he begins attacking Mithgar, killing soldiers and civilians and turning their forces inward. The High King of Mithgar, Garon, is killed in the fighting, but against all odds the Golden Horde is pushed back. Some of the heroes manage to corner Kutsen Yong after an epic battle and while he seeks to use the dragons to kill everyone, he ends up disarmed. Still using control of the Dragonstone, he screams at the Dragon Ebonskaith to 'destroy'....realizing what he has to do, a heartbroken Ebonskaith destroys the Dragonstone, loosely itnerpreting the orders...killing his beloved high dragon, even though it's what his ruler wanted. A FURIOUS Ebonskaith, free of Kutsen Yong's control, transforms into dragon form and seizes the would-be Dragonking, and proceeds to rip him to bloody shreds slowly, ending his mad ambitions.

Mitigating Qualities?

Now, in heinousness...he compares well to Ydrael and most villains, even to Modru. Kutsen Yong has the deaths of countless innocents on his hands with his forces massacring people left and bloody right, razing entire cities, torturing thousands or more, blood sacrifice, and attempting to do a repeat performance with Mithgar. Most villains never get up to those levels except Modru himself.

Mitigating Qualities...basically, he was raised to believe he had a right to rule and devoted himself to gyphon's faith, but it's a most selfish faith at best as Kutsen Yong intends on becoming the most powerful man in the world as a result, Gyphon's own chosen. It's worth noting while Ydral attempted to corrupt Kutsen Yong into an evil ruler, Kutsen Yong goes badly offscript and Ydral can't control him after a point, which really starts angering Ydral enormously.

Conclusion?

I think he makes it. Kutsen Yong is a total bastard, even if he's a pathetic one in the end, with all he attempts to do and what he achieves. Expect Ydral to follow soon and the rotten apple that was his son Bela Stoke didn't fall far from the tree...

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#135039: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:46:05 PM

All right, second proposal from Sundered Lands!

This guy is a Walking Spoiler BTW.

Who Is He?

Grinder Prickleback is an ambitious hedgehog who wants to use the six eponymous crowns to unleash a spell that will control everyone's minds and allow him to Take Over the World.

He's also Percy, the Badass Bookworm I mentioned in Grizzletusk's EP.

What Has He Done?

Prior to the story, Grinder was a member of the Sect of the Sinister Spell, a secret organization of hedgehogs. These hedgehogs served the six Badger Lords, and Grinder, being greedy and ambitious, envied the fact that the Lords wouldn't share their secrets behind their magic. So Grinder tried to create a mind-control spell in order to force the Badger Lords to obey him. Instead, Grinder ended up blowing up the entire planet and creating several supernatural storms. The badgers tried to defuse the effects of the spell, but ultimately died, and loyalists spread all six crowns—which contained most of the Badgers' powers—across the edges of the Sundered Lands, hoping someone would one day find them and repair the world. The survivors of the explosion and storms managed to salvage what was left, and after many years, civilization returned—albeit, now everyone has to travel using skyboats. Using the Vile Rune of Neverending Life, Grinder was able to live for over two thousand years, waiting very patiently for "the Lamplighter" (Trundle) and "the Princess of Darkness" (Esmeralda) to show up, as it was prophesied that they would find all six crowns.

In the present, Trundle, Esmeralda, and Jack are searching for the second crown when they encounter Grinder (now called Herald "Percy" Pursuivant and working as Keeper of Scrolls) on the island of Widdershins. Percy tells them that he's merely a scientist seeking knowledge, and after the trio explains what quest they're on, he helps them acquire the Iron Crown. Knowing they can't haul the Crystal and Iron crowns around since they could be stolen, the heroes let Percy look after them while they head off to go seek the third crown.

Percy shows up again in Full Circle as Trundle and Esmeralda are seeking the final crown. The duo figure out that the final crown is in Shiverstones, right where Trundle's adventure began. Percy decides to come along with them, and shortly after finding the crown, they're ambushed by Grizzletusk's crew and Millie. The gang all escapes the pirates and find the clue to the stone altar on the island of Sunsett. Still keeping up his ruse, Percy keeps helping Trundle and Esmeralda as they wander through the tunnels of Sunsett, evading all the traps and subduing or killing any pursuing pirates. Just as Percy finishes helping the heroes set the crowns along the altar, Millie comes along threatening to kill him, Trundle and Esmeralda, and calls Percy by his true name. Before she can, the same scorpion that killed Grizzletusk and his crew comes along and drags her away, presumably killing her.

Trundle realizes what Millie said before dying, and he confesses that he's actually Grinder Prickleback after he and Esmeralda quickly discover that Percy is a fraud. Percy threatens the duo with his crossbow and a pistol, demanding they finish placing the crowns so he can use their power to control the Sundered Lands. Afterwards, he takes Trundle's sword and inserts it into a slot in the altar once he realizes said sword will unlock all the powers. The powers within the crowns activate and soar through Percy's body. Instead of allowing him to activate his spell, they strip away the effects of the Vile Rune of Neverending Life, and he ages hundreds of years in a matter of seconds, turning into a wrinkly body of nothing but skin and bones, before dissolving into gray dust.

Redeeming Qualities?

None.

Does He Have Loved Ones or Friends?

No. He acts very friendly towards everyone around him and plays somewhat of The Smart Guy companion that Trundle and Esmeralda have in their crew. But the moment his true name is revealed, he shows his true colors, threatens to kill Trundle and Esmeralda, and goes ahead and tries to conjure up his mind control spell once again.

Freudian Excuse?

He was jealous over the fact that the Badger Lords had so much magical powers and were keeping it all to themselves. ...S'bout it. :|

Heinous Standard Issues?

So Percy actually doesn't do anything heinous onscreen until the last chapter of the last book, admittedly. But there's evidence of everything he did spread throughout the series. Trundle and Esmeralda come across a log from the crew of a windgalleon who were trying to hide one of the crowns that mentions the "Spell of Unbinding" and some of its effects. And of course, the fact that the Sundered Lands are giant floating islands instead of just one whole world. And while it's never explicitly stated how many died during the explosion, given how it was an Earth-Shattering Kaboom, and that the prologue mentioned "survivors of the explosion," one can assume that thousands—possibly millions—got killed.

This was something discussed a while ago, villains doing something accidentally and whatnot. Did Percy mean to blow up the world? Absolutely not. That wasn't part of his plan at all. Does he care that he inadvertently split the world into thousands of islands and killed thousands or millions of innocents?

No. And on top of that, he wasted no time attempting to unleash the mind control spell onto the Sundered Lands again, and had no intentions of fixing the world like Trundle and Esmeralda did. He just wanted complete power.

Again, Millie doesn't count. Her goal was the same as Percy's, sure, but she didn't destroy the world to begin with and wasn't involved with it, despite being a member of the Sect. Grizzletusk still counts though, largely because he doesn't have any kind of magical powers; he's just the leader of a group of pirates who, like Millie and Percy, wanted more power and didn't care who he had to kill to get it.

Final Verdict?

Given that he destroyed the whole world, and planned on controlling everyone's minds so he could rule over everyone? I say keeper.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#135040: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:47:21 PM

Hedgehog CM. That's a new 'un

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#135042: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:53:41 PM

[tup]Yong and percy

[up][up]Well I think we already have mephilies the dark. Who I think is a Hedgehog.

Edited by miraculous on Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:53:58 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#135043: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:55:20 PM

@miraculous: Oh yeah, Mephiles. I think he's just taking the form of a hedgehog, but eh. Close enough.

[tup] for Kutsen Yong.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#135044: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:56:45 PM

[up][up] He's a demonic creature taking the form of a Hedgehog I think. ([nja])

[tup] btw.

Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Nov 3rd 2018 at 10:57:09 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#135045: Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:57:59 PM

[tup] Ku'tsen Vong and Grinder Pricklepants.

No I did not mistype.

MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#135046: Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:01:51 PM

On reflection, I feel like I can give a [tup]for Kutsen Yong as well.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#135047: Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:06:19 PM

Yes to Yong. Stoke and Modru both get killed too, right?

So, this Dragonstone, does it have the...soul of the high dragon or something?

Yes to Grinder. Wow, what an Anti-Climax.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#135048: Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:07:19 PM

Basically, yes to the Dragonstone.

Stoke and Modru both die in their own stories. Modru is killed at the climax of the War of the Ban and Stoke is hunted down by the heroes, impaled on his own torture equipment and then decapitated. He deserved worse.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#135049: Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:09:01 PM

@ACW: This book series is rough around the edges. It's fun, but it's rough around the edges. tongue

@PolarPhantom: ..I want to use that name in the write-up. And I can't. And that upsets me. [lol]

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#135050: Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:10:54 PM

What happens to Gyphon?

Also, judging by the post, he seems more like the GDV film Sauron than the fleshed-out Morgoth.

Edited by ACW on Nov 3rd 2018 at 6:11:04 AM


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