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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#132751: Oct 13th 2018 at 8:56:39 PM

Alright, been meaning to get this one in for a while, and tis the season...

What's the Work?

The Dead Matter is a film by Edward Douglas of the Midnight Syndicate, who did the soundtrack....now, the premise? The powerful vampire lord Vellich is in control of a powerful artifact, a scarab that allows him to control any dead matter, which he's using tot ry to cause a Zombie Apoclypse to overwhelm the living and kill/rule everything. The vampire hunter, Ian, manages to steal the scarab from Vellich, ending with the scarab finding its way to a woman named Gretchen who is mourning her brother...as bad things start happening.

Who is Vellich?

A powerful vampire, played by Andrew Divoff in an amazing wig...Vellich is a mass killer who is raising the dead for the whole zombie apocalypse. Foiled in the start, though managing to kill Ian's assistant, Vellich is set on the trail of the scarab to recover his power. Along the way, we see Vellich leaves a trail of bodies for various reasons, largely enjoyment, before tracking down Gretchen. Also deciding to enlist the aid of his former rival Sebed, Vellich is revolted by Sebed's focus on a drug, as it takes away the essence of the vampire as the predator. When Sebed's doorman blocks Vellich from entering? Vellich rips his jaw off with a huge grin and leaves him to bleed out before negotiating with his old rival. Vellich proceeds to kill more people to get near to Gretchen, murdering a friend of hers, as she comes to grips with the power she has...

Because he's a dick, Vellich infiltrates her apart, as Ian also closes in and tortures Gretchen mentally by taking the form of her dead brother Sean to mock her how his death was her fault before vamping out and trying to kill her and all her friends. Ian's interference means Vellich is badly wounded and is forced to flee and beg Sebed for sanctuary. When Sebed tries to lord his superiority over Vellich and tries to force him to try his drugs? Vellich turns into mist, flies into Sebed and kills him from the inside out agonizingly. He informs everyone he's the new sheriff in town and sets about hunting for the scarab wiith the others. Ian is attempting to destroy it, as it fuses with Gretchen's body, ending as Vellich arrives against other vampires, killing Gretchen's friend Frank and attempting to murder Gretchen and seize the Scarab...the Scarab, however, takes over Gretchen and promptly enslaves the vampires present...before ordering Vellich to pick up a cross, burning him horribly...and then forces him to put it in his mouth, killing him in hideous agony and ending his ambitions.

Mitigating Qualities?

Vellich has the highest body count and wants to cause a Zombie Apocalypse with the scarab. He's the most sadistic brute in the film, bar none and is a total bastard besides. Vellich is the nastiest, with a high body count and a tendency to go for the pain when he can. Sebed is nasty, but he's really just a low-rent drug dealer.

Vellich has no morality to him. His only issue with the drug trade is he feels it demeans the predator a vampire is supposed to be and other vampires comment on him as old fashioned in how he does things, but he's no less evil for it.

Conclusion?

I'd give a yes. Solid movie, too, and Divoff is a blast in the role. He clearly knows what kind of movie he's in and decided to have a lot of fun.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#132753: Oct 13th 2018 at 9:01:12 PM

[tup] Vellich

@Austin: I think that a note mentioning that the Manager messed up with her victim would be good in her entry. Or that She's basically the Starter Villain of the series.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 13th 2018 at 11:02:15 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132755: Oct 13th 2018 at 9:13:03 PM

[tup] to vellich

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#132756: Oct 13th 2018 at 9:24:48 PM

[tup]Vellich.

Why so serious?
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#132757: Oct 13th 2018 at 9:26:04 PM

[tup] for Lord Vellich.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#132758: Oct 13th 2018 at 9:29:06 PM

Sure on Vellich

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132760: Oct 13th 2018 at 9:44:04 PM

I took a look at drakkons character page. He is listed as Woobie,Destroyer Of Worlds from what I understand its possible to be a CM and a Jerkass Woobie(Like kilgrave or TV hunter Zoloman or jerome) sense while it doesn't justify what they've done remotely, it's not hard to see why there like how they are. Whereas the Woobie destroyer of worlds is different in the degree of sympathy they have, reserved for outright Tragic Villain types. I don't think it should be cut sense he clearly started out the latter trope rather simply put (downplayed in the end as the "destroyer of worlds" part ultimately outweighed the "woobie" part) or some variation I may be mistaken on the rules of the trope if so do correct me please.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132762: Oct 13th 2018 at 10:13:41 PM

In that case it should be either cut or edited to make it clear the Woobie part is ultimately downplayed.

Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 13th 2018 at 10:17:12 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#132763: Oct 13th 2018 at 10:42:24 PM

[tup] Vellich.

I discussed Xandred with miraculous and agree he's a cut. If Serrator weren't around I might have been a little more lenient, but as it stands he's not bad enough for his season let alone the franchise.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#132764: Oct 13th 2018 at 10:53:34 PM

Honestly, if there's a Power Rangers villain I kind of wish counted? Ivan Ooze from the first movie. I remember almost jack about that except Paul Freeman's gloriously hammy performance.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132765: Oct 13th 2018 at 10:57:12 PM

Ooze and the girl with the metal bikini were the most memorable parts. I also wish he counted.

I still think xandred stands out sense there's only one villain really worse then him. But I see your point

How do others feel about the "woobie destroyerstroyer Of Worlds" thing with drakkon?

Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 13th 2018 at 10:59:54 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132767: Oct 13th 2018 at 11:06:22 PM

I suggest its edited instead of outright cut. Something like

Ultimately downplayed as the "destroyer of worlds" part far outweighs the "Woobie" part.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#132768: Oct 13th 2018 at 11:08:28 PM

Why didn't Ooze count? Heinousness? Not potentially serious enough?

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132769: Oct 13th 2018 at 11:10:34 PM

Was he even suggested?

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#132770: Oct 13th 2018 at 11:15:06 PM

Ooze was discussed back and the day and ruled not to count because he's not heinous enough... a notion, sadly, I have to agree with. Ordering a mass suicide of all of Angel Grove's parents in the climax takes him close and it's indeed a unique bit of cruelty for the franchise, but literally everything else he does is utterly standard fare for the series,

Edited by Scraggle on Oct 13th 2018 at 12:15:31 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#132771: Oct 13th 2018 at 11:33:19 PM

[tup]Velich

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#132772: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:05:59 AM

Power Rangers. The child franchise where ordering mass suicide isn't enough to count.

Amazing.

Maybe if he gets to appear in the Darker and Edgier Boom Comics...mmm...

Watch me destroying my country
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#132773: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:11:27 AM

[up] ...it truly did not dawn on me how fucked this franchise's standard is until you phrased it in that exact way.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#132774: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:34:25 AM

[tup] Vellich

Alright guys I’ve got a potential candidates from a video game I played a while back called Lost Planet, so first lets talk about the game.

What’s The Work?

Lost Planet or Lost Planet: Extreme Condition is a third-person shooter video game taking place on the fictional planet of E.D.N. III. With people trying to colonize it after the Earth's conditions become too hostile for humans due to war, global warming and pollution.

However E.D.N. III is inhabited by an aggressive and territorial insectoid alien species named the Akrid, which come in all shapes and sizes and generate their own precious thermal energy. Now for many year humanity fought the Akrid for control over the planet many of them seeking out a nomadic existence as "snow pirates," harvesting energy from fallen Akrid.

However there is a third faction in played a fictional interstellar megacorporation named Neo-Venus Construction (NEVEC) NEVEC, that desires to wipe out the space pirates and the Akrid, proving to be an even worse force of evil than the Akrid and its up to game protagonist Wayne Holden to stop them. Now introducing NEVEC’s leader Dennis Isenberg.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Dennis Isenberg or Commander Isenberg is the top executive of NEVEC on E.D.N III in charge of the Frontier Project. Convincing his colleagues that the Frontier Project will get rid of all the Akrid on E.D.N III and make it more inhabitable for humans, he leaves a very important detail in that the Frontier Project will also killing the millions of people already living on E.D.N III as well as every other life form on the planet while Isenberg will watch the destruction safely in the sky before swooping in and claiming the planet as his own.

When Gale realizes this and rebels against Isenberg he manipulates one of Gale’s friends Ivan Solotov into luring Gale, his son Wayne and the rest of his comrades into a trap where Isenberg unleashes the monstrous Akrid Green Eye onto Gale’s forces massacre dozens of people. He also has his dragon Bandero kill any survivors leading to Gale’s death with only his son Wayne managing to escape the onslaught, though lost his memories along the way.

For 30 years Isenberg have his forces find and kill those who aren’t apart of NEVEC (so lots and lots of people) as well as kill as many Akrid as possible so he can extract the energy from them to fuel his omnicial Frontier Project. He’d also force the son of his puppet Yuri Solotov work on the Frontier Project and would constantly torture him whenever he’s goes out of line. He later kills Yuri once he’s of no use to him.

As Wayne and his allies closes in on Isenberg, he orders his men to hunt them down leading to the death of one of Wayne’s friends, Basil (who reveal that she lost her husband because of Isenberg). With everything needed for the Frontier Project, Isenberg activates it hoping to kill all life on the planet including the Akrid and all the humans on the planet, including Wayne, his friends, and even Isenberg’s own men, and millions more. Luckily Wayne manages to arrive just in time to kill Isenberg and put a stop to his omnicidal plans.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Now Isenbreg tries to “justify” his atrocities that it is the betterment for human kind. The thing it just comes across as total BS as he has no problems whatsoever killingof numerous humans his such as his own subordinates Gale, Joe, and Yuri as well as his plan to wipe out all of humanity on E.D.N III. Plus Yuri tries to offer a way to terraform the planet without having to kill all the humans on the planet, only for Isenberg to torture him still going along his omnicidal plan, showing that all Isemberg really wants is to wipe out all of humanity on E.D.N III so that he’ll was no opposition to conquer the planet and rule it with an iron fist.

Now the third installment reveals that Isenberg had father Caleb, but like with Mr.Stone, Isenberg never once mentions his father, basically showing that he doesn’t give a flying fuck about him. So yeah he’s a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist with plans to destroy all life in a planet and has zero redeeming qualities.

Heinousness?

Now then I believe that Isenberg’s plans to wipe out all life on a planet, millions of humans and Akrid alike, as well as the dozens if not hundreds of people he personally kill triumphs all others in this department.

The Akrid cant qualify because they’re just wild animals with no sentience plus we invaded their planet. There’s also his dragon Bandero who I was considering to EP, but decide to forgo is since commit much other than kill Wayne’s father and all the survivors from the Green Eye trap and develop a rivalry with Wayne all of which were ordered by Isenberg.

As for if there’s any qualifiers in the other games I can tell you that no one counts in the second game given that the main antagonists of that game are Akrids who I already said not to count due to being non-sentient wild animals.

The third game has his father Caleb trying to control the Akrid but seems to care for the human race unlike his sociopathic son and also didn’t try to wipe all life on a planet, also unlike his sociopathic son. So like I said before I think Dennis Isenberg triumphs in this department.

Final Verdict?

I’ll leave that to you guys.

Edited by G-Editor on Oct 14th 2018 at 9:52:50 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#132775: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:38:08 AM

Same franchise where a man who. Straight up absorbs a woman Effectivley killing her saying "if you love Decker so much be with him" did not count.

[tup] to isenburg

Edited by Kylotrope on Oct 14th 2018 at 12:40:04 PM

Things are really about to get Fun around here

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