During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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Send them another one just in case.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Cutting this unauthorized example from Goblin Slayer: Every. Single. Goblin. Rape and horrific death to anyone that intrudes upon their nest is guaranteed, and their entire lives focus around hate and disdain for anything not a goblin.
Also this is a group, which is not permitted.
IPP Wick Check created.Alright, I got a classic one now.
What's the work?
Mabuse the Gambler is a silent film from the 1920s, by Fritz Lang. It's an epic film 4.5 hours long, chronicling the exploits of Dr. Mabuse, a criminal mastermind in Germany, and a gambler in all senses of the word. So, let's talk...the good doctor.
Who is Mabuse?
The world's greatest criminal mind, the gambler, the master of disguise. Played by Rudolf Klein-Rogge, Mabue visits gambling dens night after night to play and win at cards, while organizing a scheme to short the stock market so he profits. Now, the state prosecutor, Norbert von Wenk, begins to suspect there's someone behind recent criminal activity nad begins to investigate. Mabuse quickly has one of hi former victims killed, but his lover Carozza is captured. Becoming obsessed with the wife of one of the good guys, Mabuse also kidnaps her while steadily destroying the mind of her husband.
Mabuse? Then proceeds to decide Carozza can't be trusted...and knowing of her loyalty to him, he sends poison smuggled to her in prison, knowing she'll take it out of loyalty to him. He then has his henchman Pesch bomb von Wenk's office, with multiple casualties (not von Wenk though), while also arranging for Pesch to be shot when he's captured. When the Countess, still Mabuse's prisoner, refuses his advances, Mabuse finishes things with her husband by arranging his hypnotized suicide with a razor blade. Deciding to eliminate von Wenk, Mabuse tricks him into a magic show where he attempts to hypnotize him into suicide. It fails thanks to von Wenk's allies. When von Wenk's group tracks Mabuse down, Mabuse and men make a final stand, attempting to kill the police and Mabuse fleeing to abandon his men...only to be confronted by the ghosts of his victims and driven mad, taken to an asylum.
Now...the tricky part in The Testament of Dr. Mabuse? The big twist of the movie, when the good doctor returns, creating a new empire of crime, causing more deaths, and intending on crafting an 'Empire of Crime' and chaos...now, it turns out? Mabuse is dead...but Dr. Baum one of the asylum head, believes he's Mabuse. The film leaves it ambiguous, though...if Mabuse got in Baum's head before died to continue the work...or if Mabuse's evil ghost was really helping him throughout, which is indeed possible. Either way, though...
Heinousness?
Mabuse is the only major villain and sets it. Now, his tendency to double cross and murder every obstacle, bombs a prosecutor office, manipulates his loyal right hand woman into suicide and steadily destroys the mind of a romantic rival before forcing him into suicide. For a villain from the 1920s, and a criminal genius, Mabuse wins this one handily, moreso if it really is his evil spirit and not just his legacy after movie 1.
Mitigating Qualities?
No. Mabuse is a genius, but he's a pure sociopath. We see the ghosts of his victims and there's a lot of them. He sacrifices his men like nothing, and Carozza? He counts on her to be loyal, and casually orders her suicide when he decides she might be in danger of rolling on him. Hes obsessed with the countess, but it's impossible to say he loves her with all that, and what he does with the Count is just nasty.
Conclusion?
I'd say he's a nice, old school keeper.
Yea to Mabuse. Is this the guy that you propose as an MB Lighty? Also, cut that Goblin Slayer example with an extreme prejudice. I was originally try to reserve it but turned it down after reading the character pages.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Okay, to start my new batch...
What's the setting?
Exit Humanity is a flick featuring zombies in the Civil War era (just like Dread Nation which I pulled another candidate from... I seem to be pulling out a few from a rather specific premise) with Brian Cox narrating a story of a man's journey in the aftermath of the war... the dead have come to life and prowl, turning whomever else they bite into one of then. Edward Young, a former soldier, sees his family become zombies and is forced to put them down (he even has to kill his horse, the poor guy), vowing to take his kid's ashes to a certain waterfall he promised he'd take him there while his son was alive. Along the way? Edward gets strung up in the struggles of a man named Isaac who's trying to save his sister from a very... unsavory militia of Confederate men. Leading them? Meet General Williams.
Who is General Williams? What has he done?
A Knight Templar Confederate who is bitter about the Confederacy's loss, Williams is a leader of a militia of amoral, murderous soldiers who spend the aftermath of the war pillaging, raping, and killing or kidnapping anyone in their way. Specifically, General Williams is very passionate about a rumor he's heard about someone immune to the zombies' bite. He thinks a cure can be made — oh, but not for purely altruistic reasons, no. With a cure comes opportunity for a reward, for the South's glory.
To try and find someone with an immunity? Williams and his men have been kidnapping lots of innocent people to experiment on them, using the zombies... throwing them in a cell and dragging them one after another to be bitten by the zombies, invariably resulting in their agonizing death and infection to let his doctor experiment on the bodies. He's also convinced this is a manmade virus, and when his confounded, terrified doctor tries to insist it's beyond his grasp to understand Williams threatens to toss his doctor to the ghouls himself. Williams and his men capture Young after discovering him trespassing, tossing him into a cell with over a dozen others they've captured, including Isaac's sister Emma. At Isaac's timely arrival, Young, Isaac, and Emma free but can't save the others. Williams and his men pursue them, eventually tracking them down to the house of a sympathetic healer, burning down her house and murdering the healer before dragging Isaac and Emma back to be used as zombie fodder.
Williams aims to draw Young out, but Young ends up luring a crowd of zombies with him, creating a chaos to free Williams' other prisoners and tearing through his men. Williams and Young end up in a stand-off near a stream where he tries to win Young over to his side with a heartwarming speech about how he intends to take back Tennessee for the South and slam down his psychotic definition of "order" on society (with all the Confederate nastiness that entails, of course). Young degrades him, telling him he'd rather live among the undead than people like Williams... and outspeeds him in the draw, shooting him dead.
Any mitigating factors?
Mmm... I wouldn't say so. Williams' attempt to get a cure is less out of well intention and more to seize glory for himself, and none of his beliefs range past vicious self-righteousness. He isn't the worst kind of character I can pull up from these kinds of films, but his experiments? Have lots of victims and a regular operation that's already lasted weeks when Young finally gets there.
Conclusion?
Keep.
Thoughts?
I know this was mentioned but it was a long time ago and I need a bit of clarity, but Bellatrix Lestrange is a CM yet has an entry in her character page of Even Evil Has Loved Ones. Sure it also mentions she doesn't care about her children, but it still mentions she has a close relationship with her sister which implies that she does care for her even in the present-which would invalidate her CM status(they cannot have good qualities, like loving even a single person). Should her entry there be changed or what?
Also while I'm not against it, I find it strange that Joffery Baratheon gets Adaptational Villainy in the show despite being a CM in the original work and show. A CM is the most evil you can be, it's maximum villainy. So trying to claim he's somehow worse is...well, it's just odd to me
Well a CM can have Adapdatinal Villainy.
To simplify. It's simply adding MORE heinous acts to to an already very heinous Charahcter
Edit:it confused me for a bit too.
Edited by Kylotrope on Sep 17th 2018 at 1:29:23 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereRJ: Look at Embryo.
Change of plans: Dollmaker and Adventure Time go next week; I'll still have a secondary batch for the Web Original stuff.
Shar; Mabuse (Lighty, have you seen the other sequel?); Williams (I wouldn't be surprised if Bill Moseley had more; he's been in a LOT of horror films).
OK here's my Dee write up.
- Sandman: 24 Hour Diner: Dr Dee takes the costumers of a diner hostage with his ruby. Dee makes a kid show host instruct his audience on how to commit suicide. He then mess with their minds and makes them live their deepest darkest desires. Dee has them attack each other and worship him as a god. Dee then has them reveal their deepest secrets. Dee makes them have sex with each other, punish themselves, and turns them into primitives. Finally Dee has them kill themselves and attack Morpheus as he tries to reach him to get his ruby back. As evil as his cannon counterpart Dee did everything simply because he could.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 17th 2018 at 5:51:49 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
