During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It looks like Ikeda's only other CM is Shido. He notably plays Char Aznable, but from the character page doesn't seem anywhere NEAR this trope.
Yes, yes he is.
Edited by ACW on Aug 26th 2018 at 1:18:58 PM
Isnt he also Sandaaru in Ninpuu Sentai Hurricaneger
Edited by miraculous on Aug 26th 2018 at 10:17:40 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."For what it's worth, with regards to the comments that were posted yesterday, I'm not entirely opposed myself to the DB franchise villains that don't count and often get brought up here being put on the Never Again list with a brief explanation on why they don't count. To at least some extent, I think it's one of those things that simply bound to be brought up every so often. Apart from being super popular and watched by a lot of people, there are sat least several villains in it amongst those that don't qualify that come close enough that they're pretty much guaranteed to be seen as such by some people without looking up the specific reasons why they've been disqualified here. Doing something like that might actually be helpful for those who don't want to go searching for specific posts that give them the answers they're looking for.
Oh, and just for the record, because the word "discuss" was being thrown around a lot after I simply asked why the original King Piccolo doesn't count, I'd like to clarify that more than anything else, I was doing just that so that I could get a simple and direct answer without having to possibly scroll through several pages of old debates in vain to find the answer. I was worried that even if I tried, I would mostly just get results about Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z or that mention Piccolo at all (as in the current one). I wasn't necessarily aiming to start a full-blown discussion. It's pretty easy to deduct that a character from a classic and popular series that originally aired almost 30 years ago would have already been discussed and down-voted; I just wanted to know what the reasons were since it wasn't obvious to me, and while I'd come across random bits of discussion about Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z villains before, I never came across anything that stated why King Piccolo, specifically, didn't count. That being stated, I'm sorry if once again, I unintentionally reignited a sensitive ongoing issue for some people.
On another note, are there still plans to add Sendak's actions from the first episode of season 6 to his write-up? Just curious since I noticed a bunch of other entries were recently modified, and Light wasn't opposed to it when I brought it forward.
I don't have editing privileges, so are you referring to copying and pasting the existing entry from the Voltron: Legendary Defender YMMV page here along with trying to add in what I suggested? I could try that, but I got the impression that Lighty was planning on doing it, and I didn't want to risk interfering and getting in trouble.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Aug 26th 2018 at 3:02:54 PM
For Sendak, feel free to modify his writeup at Voltron: Legendary Defender and post it here.
Oh, you don't have editing privileges. Well then, yeah, a copy and paste would probably work. Lighty said he has no issues adding it.
Edited by ACW on Aug 26th 2018 at 3:07:07 PM
Okay, here goes. This is my proposed embellishment of Sendak's CM post. I hope no one minds that I re-worded the first part of it, but I honestly couldn't think of a way of adding his extra credentials without elaborating a bit more on him in general:
"Commander Sendak was always a fairly ruthless high-ranking member of the Galra Empire, even by their standards. However, it's after the downfall of Zarkon that he truly came into his own as a monster. With the position of the throne going to Prince Lotor, Sendak becomes the leader of his own Galra splinter faction, the Fires of Purification. Shortly afterwards, he leads them in an assault on a Galra shield base, leaving everyone in it, as well as the labor colony they're protecting, exposed to lethal radiation that would kill them all if the shield was not immediately fixed in time; his motivation for this boiled down to hateful spite for any of his kind that were loyal to Lotor and wouldn't subjugate themselves to his new faction. Later locating Earth, Sendak kills the soldiers sent against him and begins bombing and razing cities until the world surrenders to him, whereupon the citizens are enslaved and forced into work camps to create new weapons. Obsessed with finding Voltron and punishing the Lions' Paladins, Sendak makes a deal to spare Earth in exchange for the Lions, only to double back on it, and forcing the Paladins and the treacherous Admiral Sanda to watch as he intends to exterminate Earth and the billions who live there. When Voltron finally arrives to oppose him, Sendak ruthlessly kills entire ships full of his own men to get at the Paladins, and refuses to let any of his own crew get to safety, consumed with his own ambition and spite and taking the worst excesses of Galra to their natural conclusion."
Well, what do you think? Feel free to edit it further if you feel like I tampered with it too much, especially if you think I made it too "wordy".
I had a feeling I'd get that sort of response if I tried this. Condensing really isn't my strong suit. For now, I'm just going to wait until more commentary comes in, and if that's the consensus, then others can edit it further to their liking, or at the very least, offer suggestions on what to re-word or remove.
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Aug 26th 2018 at 4:28:27 AM
Shao Li and @Riley1scool... I have no idea what you are trying to say, might want to be more specific.
Seems a bit long.
Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Aug 26th 2018 at 9:30:39 PM
Eh, Char do have a lot redeeming traits. But he easily passes the heinous standard for Gundam UC, which means that he is actually somewhat near.
Also, ACW, you could add this to the To Do lists?
Kazuya Prota's "To-Do":
Manga/Leviathan, The American Way Those Above and Those Below
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 26th 2018 at 3:58:04 AM
Watch me destroying my countryKazuya: Well, maybe. I was just referring to the redeeming traits, of which it seems like he has quite a few. BTW, you can add that line on your own.
BTW, has anyone seen the Deadpool 2 extended cut? It was recently released on DVD, but the digital version was re;eased 2+ weeks ago. Apparently the headmaster torturing isn't just offscreen anymore.
Edited by ACW on Aug 26th 2018 at 5:09:59 AM
Oh. I haven't seen that. Hm. Well, we'll get to it eventually.
I sort of met that actor you know. His name's Eddie Marsan. British actor. Been working for a very long time.
He's a super nice guy. Came into my library where I work to record stories for Alzheimer's patients to listen to. Got in the local paper. We didn't speak, just sort of smiled at each other as he was leaving. I thought it might be a bit... rude of me to distract him. Maybe it wouldn't have been. He seemed chill.
Dunno if he has any keepers listed. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he played some real nasty buggars on some ITV dramas or the like.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Aug 26th 2018 at 10:33:01 AM
I don't remember him playing any CM's, though he does play an associate to a CM.
Uh... that Sendak can be trimmed down substantially. Someone else can do it if they want or I can but playing around with it I can keep all those crimes in tact with it being more than 100 words shorter. It doesn't necessarily have to be as short as I would do it but as is it's winding into more plot details then it needs to.
looks good man
Edited by 43110 on Aug 26th 2018 at 10:35:56 AM
I really want this to go up tomorrow, so:
" Commander Sendak, ever a ruthless Galra commander, truly came into his own after the death of his sovereign Zarkon. After Prince Lotor takes the throne, Sendak becomes the leader of his own splinter faction, the Fires of Purification. He leads to attack a Galra shield base to expose an entire colony to lethal radiation out of pure spite for being passed over for the throne. Later locating Earth, Sendak kills the soldiers sent against him and begins bombing and razing cities until the world surrenders to him, whereupon the citizens are enslaved and forced into work camps to create new weapons. Obsessed with finding Voltron and punishing the Lions' Paladins, Sendak makes a deal to spare Earth in exchange for the Lions, only to double back on it, and forcing the Paladins and the treacherous Admiral Sanda to watch as he intends to exterminate Earth and the billions who live there. When Voltron finally arrives to oppose him, Sendak ruthlessly kills entire ships full of his own men to get at the Paladins, and refuses to let any of his own crew get to safety, consumed with his own ambition and spite and taking the worst excesses of Galra to their natural conclusion.
Time for another post...
What's the setting?
Dread Nation is a recent YA alternate history novel from Justina Ireland. In the midst of the Civil War? Fallen soldier suddenly start coming back from the dead as "shamblers," tearing apart their erstwhile companions and sending America into chaos. The USA becomes politically split into Egalitarians and Survivalists, with colored people and former slaves trained in schools to fight off the hordes of the undead. One of these young women, a biracial girl named Jane, is roped into a strange conspiracy involving disappearing families, coming into a Kansas town called Summerland to find out what's happening, and stop the cruel rulers of Summerland... mostly? The town's pastor, Preacher Snyder.
Who is the preacher? What has he done?
Preacher Snyder is the real power behind Summerland, a seemingly idyllic town with electric lights and a giant, clean church Snyder preaches at, controlling the town through his thuggish son who also happens to be the sheriff of Summerland. All these families are being brought to Summerland, colored people which live as second-class citizens to toil away for the benefit of the white minority.
Now, the preacher here? Was a former slave owner himself, a cruel man hiding under a mask of piousness who preaches that God has a particular divine order to things. Under this order? The preacher's a racist, sexist, fundamentalist asshole who keeps cruel hold over Summerland, with any perceived infractions to his brutal role being met with brutal lashings, beatings, and sometimes even death. Oh, and the hordes of shamblers outside Summerland? Snyder keeps them at bay through a wall built around the city, keeping the shambers at bay by conscripting colored people and forcing them to fend off shamblers with little better than rusty farm equipment. Death tolls are high. Needless to say, it's also a piss-poor way to actually curb the hordes... the numbers of the shamblers only swell with every death, with more coming in from all over the continent. The preacher refuses to bend and continues to needlessly throw away countless lives to protect his "city on the hill," modeling Summerland after how he thinks all cities in America should be while continuing to oppress and torture everyone that stands up.
Eventually, the growing hordes become too much of a problem to ignore and it's resolved that for the good of the city, the Snyders have to die. Jane's fairer-skinned, lighter-haired friend Katherine masquerades as a white woman to seduce the sheriff — with the preacher clearly having lecherous designs on her of his own — while he continues to send more colored people to their death to fight off the hordes, still refusing to provide them with better weaponry. The ruse with Katherine falls through, though, and Jane walks in on the sheriff threatening to murder Katherine... though the preacher just hounds at him to murder Jane and Katherine then and there. His plan? Is just to keep throwing more and more people at the shamblers, confident that he can resume his tyranny and remaining too proud to acknowledge his haughtiness is dooming the entire town. Thankfully, Jane shoots the sheriff and he accidentally squeezes a shot right into his old man. The sheriff dies instantly but old man Snyder bleeds out in agony on the ground, with Jane utterly tearing him apart and leaving him to either bleed out or be eaten by the incoming shamblers... and telling him to send her own monstrous, racist father her regards when he gets to Hell.
Any mitigating factors?
Nope. Snyder's a Holier Than Thou hypocrite at best and a fundamentalist tyrant and monster at worst without a glimmer of real altruism in him. His son's bad, too, but it's heavily hinted he loved his late wife and may have even truly fallen for Katherine. Preacher Snyder, though? Doesn't even seem to care when his own son is shot in front of him and never expresses him any true love regardless.
Conclusion?
I'd keep.
Thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on Aug 26th 2018 at 8:55:03 AM
Thanks for finding a way to trim down the number of words in my proposed modification of Sendak's post while keeping all the key points intact. Still, it wasn't too bad for my first hands-on attempt at an addition/embellishment to a CM post, right?
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Aug 26th 2018 at 11:11:45 AM

Mmm... the AI's actions? No, she created it to carry on her work after her passing and could not have known every little specific action it would have taken. That being said, I'm not opposed to her getting a line the likes of, "Created an AI in her likeness to continue tormenting her classmates in the name of the despair she sought." If there isn't one already.