During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
A Google search shows that apparently the only discussion of that was this
.
Btw there's going to be a sequel to Artemis Fowl relasing in 2020. Mind if I take it, since I grew up on the series, I dont know if anyone can compete with Opal in terms of heinous standard but you never know.
Thats a really barebones and really lacking in details ep.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 25th 2018 at 3:09:21 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."New proposal, from DC Showcase: Catwoman.
This one will be short, as the source material is only 14 minutes long.
Who's the candidate?
Rough Cut, a smuggler.
What does he do?
We first see Rough Cut when he has a cat killed because it has jewels he wants to smuggle in its collar. Luckily, Catwoman rescues the kitty, and follows Rough Cut to a strip club. After our heroine tries to capture Rough Cut, he escapes. During the ensuing car chase, the crime boss causes a semi truck to crash in the hopes it'll kill Catwoman.
Rough Cut manages to make it to the docks, where a new shipment has about to leave. However, this isn't his usual diamonds. No, Rough Cut has taken up Human Trafficking, and is shipping a bunch of women to be sold as slaves. One of them is Selina's friend Holly Robinson, who looks to be about 13. Catwoman arrives to rescue the girls, and causes Rough Cut's car to crash into Gotham Bay, leaving the scumbag to drown.
Heinousness?
Big Bad, sets it. This was before the DC Universe Animated Original Movies got a Shared Universe, so he has nobody else to compete with. As for the baseline? Animal cruelty, one murder and a bunch of human, including child, trafficking definitely crosses it for a 14 minute short.
Mitigating factors?
He offers Catwoman 10% of the profits, but he's trying to get her off his back and tries to kill her not 30 seconds later. Aside from that? Nothing.
Verdict?
I'll allow it.
Another DC CM for John Di Maggio, along with Toyman and Joker from Under the Red Hood. I'm sure he's had other non-DC ones as well. (EDIT: Aggregor, for one.)
BTW, Cr0w's done a reformat of the Kamen Rider page, and I've added this week's.
Edited by ACW on Aug 25th 2018 at 8:12:59 AM
Yes to Usami, Munsey, Rough Cut and Fukami.
I have another What If villain and this may be one of the darkest What If comics yet, because of its ending, What if the Avengers became pawns of Korvac.
Who is Korvac? What has he done?
Korvac was a human born in the 31st century, as a slave to alien tyrants the Badoon. Falling asleep at this work station due to exhaustion, his masters punished him by grafting him to a computer module can act that drove him mad. Korvac escaped and became a villain, fighting the Guardians of the Galaxy and later escaping to the past. Korvac found Galactus' ship and briefly merged with it, gaining fantastic new powers and the ability to absorb cosmic energy. This act also expanded his consciousness, no longer driven by petty revenge, Korvac now sought to make the universe a better place. The Collector sent his grand daughter Carina to spy on Korvac, but instead they fell in love.
Wanting to stop Korvac's plans to now rule the galaxy, the Avengers engage Korvac in battle and Korvac kills them all. Both Odin and Zeus are mad Korvac killed their sons, but Korvac creates a force field around the Earth that will prevent cosmic beings from entering. Korvac also banishes cosmic heroes like Silver Surfer and Dr. strange from the universe, so they cannot oppose him.
Korvac recreates the Avengers, but now they are his mindless slaves, Korvac sends his Avengers to defeat other cosmic beings so he can absorb their powers and use them remake the universe. They manage to kill beings like the High Evolutionary, the Gardener and even the mighty Galactus. They try to kill the Watcher but he escapes in order to rally other cosmic forces to oppose Korvac. Captain America uses the Ultimate Nullifer to kill Galactus and after that the other Avengers bring it to Korvac.
Two cosmic beings, the Grand Master and the Shaper of Worlds come to Korvac to seek a truce, but Korvac kills the Grandmaster when he proposes a game to settle their differences, the Shaper of Worlds pleges to be Korvac's servant and he agrees. Several Avengers die while fighting these cosmic beings, but Korvac does not care.
Other cosmic beings, like the Stranger and even the Living Tribunal, reluctantly try to destroy Earth to prevent Korvac from reshaping the universe, but they cannot match Korvac's powers. Stranger dies and is absorbed by Korvac and Living Tribunal flees the universe.
The Inbetweener tries to use Carina against Korvac, but he does not care about that, with the Shaper of Worlds having possessed Carina and lured the inbetweener into a trap, so Korvac could kill him too.
However, now every alien civilization in the universe has sent a fleet of ships to kill Korvac and prevent him from remaking the universe. Korvac is enraged that so many beings oppose him and absorbs the Shaper and humanity itself and kills Carina to gain her power.
Korvac confronts the fleet, filled with hatred for a universe that did not appreciate his plans for peace and order, Korvac plans to use the Ultimate Nullifier to destroy the universe. The Watcher appears and begs Korvac to teleport to the other side of the universe, create his own galaxy to rule and leave everyone in peace. Korvac will have none of that, the universe must pay for rejecting his plans for peace and order and his dream can still be achieved, if he destroys the universe. Korvac uses the Nullifier and destroys the universe, himself included.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
This is a formality, he destroyed a universe, killing countless lives. Sure other cosmic beings tried to destroy Earth, but that was just to stop him.
Does have a Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
This where things get interesting. Korvac claims he has good intentions, but does he? He claimed he wanted to created a universe free of injustice and suffering, he also claims no one will grow old and die in his universe and in fact change of any kind will not happen in this new universe. Does that make him a true a WIE or a power mad Control Freak?
I also question his intentions, by the end of the story he acts like a teenager who is mad that no one appreciates him and destroys the universe, even though he could have done anything else.
I think he has moral agency if he can make justifications for himself and his outlook, the intro said he was driven mad when grafted to that computer module, but he gained new knowledge after merging with Glactus ship and that seemed to cure his madness and make him the man obsessed with order and perfection he is now.
Ultimately I do not think he loved Carina and his back story do not justify his actions.
Final Verdict?
He may be a keeper, depending whether you think he is a WIE or not.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 25th 2018 at 9:08:46 AM
I would like to propose changing Junko Enoshima's entry to the following. It's mostly the same, just with a few more potholes, explaining what she blackmailed Juzo about, and clarifying that she didn't personally lobotomize Chisa.
- Junko Enoshima is the despair-obsessed teenager who desired nothing less than the destruction of hope. Superior analytic abilities led to her growing intolerantly bored with life, so she devoted herself to hedonistic despair. Forcing the student council into a brutal killing game, she used the aftermath of that tragedy to brainwash the entire reserve course student body using the talents of a coerced Ryota Mitarai. She kidnaps the goodhearted teacher Chisa Yukizome and has her lobotomized into becoming her servant before converting the 77th class into Ultimate Despair by executing the beloved Chiaki Nanami. She humiliates and blackmails Juzo Sakakura, the head of Hope's Peak Academy security, over his love for his (male and presumably straight) best friend to escape punishment and traumatizes Ryota by thanking him for helping cause the world's end. After she kills her lover, she commands the reserve students to commit murder-suicides of nearly every Hope's Peak Academy student. She erases the memory of her classmates and manipulates them into betraying and murdering each other to escape a situation they placed themselves into to completely destroy hope. When discovered, she brags about killing her own sister to excite herself and almost succeeds in throwing the survivors into despair until Makoto Naegi rebukes her. Rejecting offers to turn back, she executes herself to revel in the despair of her own death. Extreme sadomasochism and a ruthless intelligence define Junko; and, in the end, friends, family, love, and even life itself were sacrifices to satiate her boredom.
Also, I think she could use an image link. How about this spoileriffic illustration
◊ from Dangan Ronpa Zero of her murdering her boyfriend?
Edited by rjd1922 on Aug 25th 2018 at 11:40:20 AM
Keet cleanup

I'm content with a list of DB villains being sorted out with reasons they do and don't count.
BTW, has the Star Ocean franchise ever been discussed?
Edited by MasterJoseph on Aug 25th 2018 at 2:53:29 AM
IPP Wick Check created.