During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
From Blazing Souls Accelate. I found this:
- Complete Monster: Brumeia seems like she's made for the role. Rather than just follow Gustavinus' plans, she goes out of her way to take Vergis Kingdom over for herself, enthrall its king and sic him into the entire royal family to ensure she becomes queen. Its prince, however, survived the onslaught and since then he sought out to take her down. She takes note of that, making the one responsible for his survival her "hostage", and when the prince comes for her, she sends the body-controlled retainer at him, forcing the guy to kill the one man that saved his life. And then, just because she felt like it, she sends the king himself against the prince, who bascially goes near catatonic and ends up demanding a Big Damn Heroes moment. It feels so great when you finally get to lay your fist full-force into her on both fights.
- Sauber is just as bad. Completely depraved and mysogynistic, he's so into taking jabs at women and even demonstrating intentions of rape. Liza then proceeds to blow him a new one when she, of all people, takes note of his behavior and the fight to herself, to ensure he never gets to touch any woman again.
Checking the wiki and character page's. It seems they may actually count, though they werent approved here.. Sauber appenrtly only goes after woman and children specfically and is a Serial Rapist while Brumeia bodyjacks people with them being totally aware of what there doing in And I Must Scream fate.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 22nd 2018 at 2:22:18 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Because the draft page is locked, I'll be posting my entree page for Revelt.
- Ciel nosurge: Revelt head of Tenmon, one of the two leading groups of Ra Ciela, in public looks like a savior, but in actuality is one of their biggest problems. Building himself as a man for the people due to his technology, Revelt has always wanted to be in the top and would succumb to any methods to get their. Separating his own daughter Nay's body and soul to place Ion, a girl with more potential, in her body, he would then train that person to become the perfect candidate for the next empress of Ra Ciela through years long worth of physical, emotional and sexual torture. He then forced his other daughter Renall to befriend Ion and betray her if she ever tries to disobey to destroy Ion's spirit and make her more easy to control. Once Ion is ready to be presented for the position of Empress, Revelt started making deals with other antagonist in order for Ion to solve them and make herself look better to the people. Once Ion began to resist Revelt's hold on her after realizing his true actions, he decides to drop all formalities and start using force to get what he wants. When Ion and her friends fought back, Revelt ultimately decides to screw over his people by trying to use song magic to teleport himself and his followers away from Ra Ciela to a new planet while leaving it too be destroyed and then guaranteeing it's end when he's stop to take everyone down with him. A selfish and evil man with ambition, Revelt destroyed his own home just because society didn't follow him.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Aug 22nd 2018 at 3:15:38 AM
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleShould be unlocked now.
I guess it'll be something like this?
- Surge Concerto:
- Revelt
- "Other Player"
EDIT: Also, for the Mario tree, I'm thinking of something like this:
- Super Mario Bros. franchise: These two villains are shockingly dark for this usually-lighthearted series:
Edited by ACW on Aug 22nd 2018 at 6:39:03 AM
Here is the writeup:
- Knights of the Cross: In this Film of the Book adaptation, the Teutonic Knights, Brothers Rotgier and Gottfried, undergo Adaptational Villainy with Hugo von Danveld Adapted Out and most of his monstrous actions given to them. They are equally monstrous as their superior, Siegfried de Lowe, but lack all his redeeming qualities. They enjoy engaging in the monstrous deeds of their order such as slaughtering and enslaving pagans as well as anybody who supports them which includes Christian Poland. When Jurand of Spychow slaughters a few Teutonic knights who ambushed pagans, Rotgier and Gottfried come up with the plan to kidnap Jurand's daughter, Danusia, for ransom with Rotgier expressing desire to rape her too. When Jurand comes for his daughter, both knights reveal how they tortured her and present him with a different girl. They also reveal that Gottfried slaughtered and hanged all the criminals whom they earlier paid to kidnap Danusia. That leads Jurand to brutally murder Gottfried before himself being overpowered and taken prisoner. Rotgier goes to Poland and tells false version of the events and blames Jurand and Poles for everything. Fanatical and hypocritical Rotgier and Gottfried really stood out in the already monstrous Teutonic Order.
Edited by emperors on Aug 22nd 2018 at 3:41:34 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Here's the final proposed Mario tree:
- Super Mario Bros. franchise: These two Omnicidal Maniacs are shockingly dark for this usually-lighthearted series:
- Super Paper Mario: Dimentio masquerades as a humorous henchman under Count Bleck's employ, while secretly harboring more sinister designs. Dimentio manipulates every faction towards his ultimate goal to use the Chaos Heart to obliterate reality so that he could create a new one under his control. To this end, Dimentio brainwashes Fracktail and sends him out to be killed by Mario, experiments on his own subordinates with the brain-jacking Floro Sprouts, seemingly murders Mario and his friends by sending them to the Underwhere, and secretly implants a Floro Sprout within Luigi's mind as to revert him back to Mr. L. After Count Bleck is defeated, Dimentio attempts to kill him, seemingly murdering Nastasia in the process. Dimentio seizes Luigi as his host in the final battle and, after his defeat, uses the Chaos Heart to try to destroy reality as an act of spite.
- Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon: King Boo sheds any of his redeeming qualities from the previous game and becomes an unfettered monster. After his first defeat by Luigi, King Boo is consumed by his lust for revenge, devolving into an uncaring sociopath who would willingly kill everyone and destroy everything just for a chance to get back at his rival. King Boo shatters the Dark Moon, enslaving the minds of the once-docile ghosts of Evershade Valley to his control. Unleashing them on the valley, King Boo abducts Mario himself and several Toads and imprisons them within paintings. Uncaring about his minions, and in a stark contrast to his characterization in the last game, King Boo performs experiments on his ghosts against their will to amplify their destructive potential, and calmly allows his own Boos to be caught and sealed by Luigi. After Luigi gets close to restoring the Dark Moon, King Boo starts to lose it, and tears open a portal to the ghosts' homeworld with the intent to destroy the universe as an act of spite. Once he's foiled, King Boo warps Luigi to his own dimension, announcing his intent to trap Luigi and all his friends in paintings as he conquers the world and "paints the town red".
Edited by ACW on Aug 22nd 2018 at 9:18:47 AM
Isn't Dimentio the actual Big Bad of that game rather than Count Bleck.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 22nd 2018 at 4:46:16 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Here's The Kid's enty.
- The New Fish: In this story set in a prison, an inmate known as "The Kid" is an inhuman and dreadful monster behind his beautiful appearance, who habitually kills and cannibalizes prisoners and guards. Notable instances include causing a guard to commit suicide out of fear of him, and killing another who discovered his past. It's revealed that The Kid lived back in the 1800's and was originally arrested for murders, cannibalism and Satanic rites before eventually being sentenced to death after additional killings inside. After he mocks the witnesses a bungled attempt to execute him, revealing his supernatural side, The Kid is eventually sealed away in an unused room. Living onto the present day, The Kid at one point goes on a murderous rampage during a blackout, butchering an entire wing of prisoners, mutilating and eating a terrified cop alive in front of the other prisoners. Years after hearing it's story and being released, the narrator learns The Kid killed some of his friends in prison, leaving one of their heads on a bed, and drove his surviving friend into having nervous breakdown.
Moreso that Count Bleck's role of Big Bad got hijacked by Dimemtio.
Let's cut the Big Bad pothole entirely and make it secretly harboring more sinister designs (or if that's debatable, I can use The Starscream pothole).
EDIT: BTW, emperors and Newton, please add your entries to the Drafts.
Edited by ACW on Aug 22nd 2018 at 9:45:48 AM
Alright....first up, a few rewrites I've been meaning to get to...
- The Rising Of The Shield Hero: Medea Pideth Machina is a sadistic goddess and the ultimate manipulator behind all of the villains in the story. Desiring ultimate power above all, Medea begins destroying 8 worlds to harness the energy of their inhabitants, all wgile physical copies of herself to sow the seeds of distrust and chaos throughout the 8 worlds, simply because she enjoys hurting innocents. To compose herself an army, Medea revives and brainwashes the corpses of those killed through her machinations, with the psychopathic Tact being just one of her servants; Medea also has no care for this army, slaughtering them all when they fail her solely to hear them scream. In the end, Medea reveals her plans to extinguish all life in the universe one world at a time simply to boost her power level, before flying into a rage when beaten and simply trying to take down millions with her as she dies. A self-proclaimed sadist who committed her crimes for nothing but more power and always with glee, Medea was the root of every single evil in the story, something she proudly boasted at every turn.
- Logan: The aforementioned Donald Pierce is the psychopathic cyborg in charge of the Reavers, Transigen's military might. As the head of security for Transigen, Pierce took part in the butchering and vivisecting of many mutants for their raw materials, also assisting in the X-23 experiments alongside Zander Rice, entailing the forcible impregnation of women with mutant genes, murdering them after they give birth, then raising the resulting children as tortured lab rats to be turned into submissive slaves and assassins in adulthood. When the children began rebelling and even killing themselves to escape, Pierce was tasked with putting them all down, and proceeded to execute several of the children. After many of the kids escape with the help of the nurses, Pierce tracks down head nurse Gabriela, brutally tortures and murders her, and continues hunting the children—torturing and killing anyone in his way in the process. After unleashing the vicious X-24 alongside Rice onto a small family to slaughter them all, Pierce lays a trap for the escaped children, rounding them up for a mass execution while beating one into submission before releasing X-24 one last time to kill Logan. Motivated only by power, cruelty, and xenophobia, Donald Pierce is easily one of the most depraved villains Logan has faced, mutant or not.
- Graceling: King Leck, though at first seeming to be a kind and noble ruler, is quickly revealed to be the most monstrous character in the story. Blessed with the Grace of Compelling Voice at birth, Leck abused and tortured everyone around him, from small animals to his own father before murdering the man. Leck eventually takes control of the kingdom of Monsea after murdering all of the current royalty, Leck uses his ability to kidnap, torture, and experiment on hundreds of women and little girls, raping and mutilating each of them for weeks on end before reviving them solely to do it all over again, even forcing his own horrified servants to do it while he watches. Regularly abusing and raping his wife before murdering her, Leck attempts to raise his own daughter to be his "perfect heir" by torturing and possibly even raping her. Sadistic beyond belief and viewing his various atrocities as "art" that should be honored, King Leck was the worst this fantasy series had to offer, horrifying and repulsing all those who knew his true nature.
- Yesterday: Henry White is the antagonist of the decades-long story. A Serial Killer of homeless people as a teenager, who matured into a Corrupt Corporate Executive, Henry captures and tortures an immortal man named John for twenty years before deciding to seek immortality for himself, killing dozens of people in Satanic rituals in his quest. After forxing John to synthesize the immortality elixir by shooting his lover, Henry happily executes his best friend since high school simply to keep immortality for himself. After gaining immortality along with Pauline, Henry stabs John in the back after the man saves Henry from falling off a cliff, and reveals he plans to use the now-immortal Pauline as his own personal torture toy for all eternity. A cheerful psychopath who enjoys his own homicidal tendencies, Henry White was willing to betray, torture, and murder dozens of innocents, even his best friend, for eternal life, and his own sick amusement.
Aaaaaand....Westcott.
- Date A Live: Sir Isaac Ray Pelham Westcott is the Director of Deus.Ex.Machina Industries and the absolutely monstrous Big Bad of the franchise. A sadomasochistic Mage who discovered his love of pain and despair when his village was slaughtered by humans, Westcott uses "revenge" against humanity as a veil to mask his true motive to simply cause destruction. Torturing and experimenting on hundreds of women and children to turn them into his enslaved "Wizards," Westcott summoned the First Spirit years ago, wiping out 150 million humans in the process, and begins hunting down every Spirit to torture and drive them insane so as to steal their Sephira Crystals. Upon obtaining a Sephira by torturing Nia for five years then forcing all the pain from those years on her at once, Westcott ups his game in slaughtering civilians and children, sending entire fleets of his own troops on suicide missions in-between maiming and killing them on a whim, and dragging entire cities into bloody conflicts. Westcott proudly proclaims every last one of his crimes as being nothing but a hobby to him, and when beaten after first trying to rewrite reality to one where he reigns supreme over a tortured humanity, Westcott tries to drag everyone, his own Dragon included, down to death with him, spending his final moments in glee at his former "friends" mourning his demise. Made all the worse by the fact that he could feel sorrow and love, yet choosing to use this in bringing himself ever more pleasure, Isaac Westcott subverts every potentially redeeming trait he possessed and racked up one of the longest rapsheets in Light Novel history, making his mark as a depraved monster who chose to commit evil acts for no other reason than the joy that being wicked brought to him.
Thoughts are appreciated before I add to Drafts.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 22nd 2018 at 1:01:44 PM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Wow, impressive keeping Westcott under 300!
EDIT: Speaking of, mind this slight change to the first sentence?
Sir Isaac Ray Pelham Westcott is the absolutely monstrous Director of Deus.Ex.Machina Industries.
Edited by ACW on Aug 22nd 2018 at 1:13:36 PM
@ACW It's good, but I wasn't horrified myself. Yeah he is evil but it is hard to be THAT disturbed by evil characters anymore. Alot of the time now it just sounds like people overreacting.
Don't get me wrong, but when you have horror works like what Wrath James White does it isn't precisely a topic that disturbs me.
Oh, I was referring to Westcott, how his rewrite looks good and how his crimes weren't as evil sounding to me as they might be others. Just something funny like some were like "He's fucking evil" but to me I was more like "Eh, yeah he's evil". I suppose it might be because of comics and horror. I am more used to mass numbers of characters dying because of the evil character's sadism. Specifically evil characters as a topic of discussion. Evil characters often don't do much that I am not used to in works of entertainment by now. It isn't a writing problem, just used to it.
Edited by Knack on Aug 22nd 2018 at 11:10:19 AM
Now, my final Kimetsu no Yaiba post...Kibutsuji Muzan.
Who is Kibutsuji Muzan?
A thousand years ago, the first demon was born. A member of the Ubayashiki family, and a man who desired perfection above all things. And perfection? to him, it meant what did not change or decay. He became the first and most powerful of the demons, offering others his blood to change them as well. Revolted at humanity, Muzan established the system of the Moons, promoting a darkly Social Darwinist view for the demons: fight, grow stronger and devour human after human. The more demons feed, as Muzan designed, the stronger they grow and perfect their skill and power. Flash forward a thousand years and countless people have died to the demon. The Ubayashiki family, disgusted at Muzan for what he had become, formed the Demon Slayers, hunting and destroying demons. Countless demon hunters have died since, with Muzan replenishing the demon ranks by corrupting and changing others and promoting the strongest demons to do the same. However, long ago, Muzan was nearly slain by by a heroic samurai, who was a user of the ultimate demon slaying technique: the Breath of the Sun. Muzan survived the encounter and the samurai? Is almost certainly Upper Moon 1, Kokushibo.
In the modern day, Muzan is supposedly the one who slaughtered Tanjiro's family and turned Nezuko into a demon. Thanks to the manga's low sales, Muzan was introduced in chapter 12, as the writer wanted to be able to end it with some closure should it be canceled. Thankfully, the sales shot up in short order, becoming one of the most consistently popular series in Shonen Jump. But I digress. It's revealed Muzan has a number of human guises, when he is found by Tanjiro. he's pretending to be a husband and a father to a woman and a girl. Playing off Tanjiro's accosting him, Muzan slashes the neck of a nearby man to infect him and turn him into a man eating demon who tries to eat his own wife. Tanjiro is forced to take him on, as Muzan leaves. Muzan then meets a group of humans in an alley and in a fit of sheer pique? Kills two of them with violent blows, proclaiming his superiority to humanity. The last one? He gives her his blood...an overdose, causing her body to agonizingly break apart.
Now, some time later...after the death of Rui, Lower Moon 5, Muzan does an employee review and decides the Lower Moons have been killed and replaced so many times that he's just disbanding the group. It also turns out he can read the minds of other demons, which prompts a massive Oh, Crap! from one demon who'd snarked at him in his thoughts. Muzan produces a a massive appendage and eats him alive as he screams for mercy. He then goes to the next Lower Moon and accuses her of fearing demon hunters more than him. When she frantically protests she'll fight in Muzan's name, Muzan kills her for contradicting him. Then kills the next for trying to run. The only one he spares is Enmu, as Enmu is such a twisted little nut that Muzan decides he has potential, gives Enmu more of his blood and enjoys Enmu rolling on the ground in agony, saying offhandedly that Enmu will either adjust to it or die...and orders him to find and kill Tanjiro, the Pillars and anyone else with him.
After Enmu's death, the Pillar of Flame, Kyojuro Rengoku ends up encountering the Upper Moon Akaza, who ends up mortally wounding him, though Rengoku injures Akaza badly. Tanjiro wounds Akaza as he escapes due to the sun rising (the sun is fatal to demons)...Akaza later goes to see Muzan, who is staying with a family in another guise, as a little boy with a skin condition so he can use their library. Muzan proceeds to torture the fuck out of Akaza, snarling at him for wanting 'praise' for killing a Pillar since "it is only natural for humans to be slain by demons" and tells Akaza to kill the others.
Muzan later calls a group meeting of the Upper Moons after Upper Moon 6 Gyutaro is killed and makes it clear how unbelievably unhappy he is, deciding he's spoiled them too much and makes a comment "I don't really know why you guys even exist anymore..." With a clear threat there. He orders Hantengu and Gyokko to go deal with things and calls an end to the meeting as we've last seen him.
Heinous Standard?
Kibutsuji Muzan is the heinous standard of Kimetsu, period. He is responsible for the deaths of tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, corrupting countless people into man eating demons, and making it the flat out law that they kill humans to grow stronger, to challenge each other, and freely culls the weak from his own ranks. even by Shonen standards, Muzan is insanely terrible as a boss, Like, to almost comical levels. He tortures his own men to implant suggestions in their head not to tell the demon hunters about him. He is exceptionally trigger happy in murdering them, and losing an Upper Moon, his most prized soldiers, makes him seriously consider murdering the rest. In addition, Muzan happily deals out torture and agonizing deaths on a whim or fits of pique. Muzan obliterates the standard and he is probably the most vile and twisted Big Bad in a running shonen series now.
Mitigating Qualities?
Now, Muzan's featured a lot in 120 chapters. A lot about him is mysterious-how he became a demon, his obsession with a flower called the Blue Spider Lily which bears a significance to strengthening the demons, his past with Kokushibo and how Kokushibo turned from (presumably) a noble samurai who once put the fear of god in Muzan himself to Muzan's right hand demon.
Now, Muzan makes it clear he cares nothing for humans. His pretense at being a loving father or child is just that. When eyes are off him, he gloats about how pathetic humans are, how he is the superior being, etc. His feelings on other demons are nonexistent and he slaughters them without a thought. When he spares Enmu, it's only because Enmu piqued his curiosity and he admits he doesn't really care if Enmu dies when he gives him more blood. He orders mass murders without blinking an eye. Under everything else, though, one runaway demon makes it clear that Muzan is actually a coward and uses the demon system so he'll always have a buffer against people hunting him. The thing he's most scared of is Tanjiro as Tanjiro bears the earrings of a Breath of the Sun user, which Muzan is genuinely frightened of.
There's nothing about Muzan that's likable or sympathetic in the least. He's a sadistic, twisted monster who left all humanity behind long ago, and while he professes he favors the Upper Moons, he coldly dismisses Gyutaro as a fool who had 'too much humanity' in him. If that wasn't enough, he then coolly contemplates killing the Upper Moons anyways, and orders them to prove they're worthy of surviving, while casually mutilating Gyokko and Akaza at differing points just because Gyokko offered up potential information he hadn't confirmed and he thought Akaza was seeking praise for killing a Pillar, which Muzan feels is so mundane that it isn't even worth remarking on.
Conclusion?
Honestly? I'd add him for now. Muzan is a seriously twisted antagonist and one of the worst I've seen in modern shonen.

Okay having said that, we have to assume writers browse TV tropes and I am not sure how many do.
Edited by emperors on Aug 22nd 2018 at 2:13:48 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!