During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
So, decided to put this to rest given how the show was mentioned a couple times but there wasn't much discussion to be had. Hero: 108 is a British/Taiwanese/Chinese series that aired on Cartoon Network back in 2010. The show revolves around a world where humans and animals lived together in harmony until a trickster named High Roller fooled the animals into thinking the humans were evil. After some years of conflict, a monkey named ApeTrully founds Big Green, an organization meant to unite man and beast. In the series, you have First Squad consisting of Lin Chung, a skilled warrior wielding a staff which he could shoot bamboo shoots from it; Mystique Sonia, a young woman who is about to stretch her tongue far distances; Jumpy Ghostface, the Rabbit King who was one of the first animals to join Big Green; and Mighty Ray, a self-absorbed boy who can fire electricity from his eyes, but he must replenish his energy by eating bananas. High Roller was the Big Bad of the first series as he is responsible for teh conflict of the story, but he doesn't qualify namely because he's Played for Laughs continuously, and he also has a childish demeanor. As for Season 2, tehre are some noticeable differences...
Who are they?
Twin Masters is the main antagonist of Season 2 as well as High Roller’s master. Hence their name, they are divided into two sides; one red, the other blue. The right side of Twin Masters is jagged, resembling lava and fire, whereas on the left side of their body is wavy, not too dissimilar to water and ice.
As revealed in the episode “Time to Go Home,” thousands of years ago, Twin Masters was once a human prince named Yang Tu whose goal was to take over Hidden Kingdom. When Lin Chung was sent back in time through a fiery tornado, he fights with Yang Tu, ending with Lin Chung using his Harmonic Energy (basically positive energy that conflicts with chaotic energy) to propel Yang Tu into a volcano. Unfortunately, his harmonic energy mixes with Yang Tu, causing him to transform. Yang Tu spends countless millennia within the volcano, mastering Chaotic Energy before emerging as Twin Masters. Upon emerging, Twin Masters changed their initial goal of taking over Hidden Kingdom into destroying it and lording over the survivors as a god.
What had they done?
- Twin Masters made their debut in the two-parter “The Rise of Lin Chung.” In the episode, he sends High Roller to kidnap Commander ApeTrully with the Chameleon army. Upon being defeated by First Squad, Twin Masters arrives and throws a negative energy ball into a volcano, boasting that once it erupted and consumed Hidden Kingdom, Big Green would be blamed for its destruction. Using their harmonic energy, Lin Chung prevents the volcano from erupting.
- In their next appearance, the Zebra Brothers steal an amulet from the Owl Kingdom. When Big Green’s turtles leave the organization due to a misunderstanding, Twin Masters instills some of their chaotic power into the amulet and uses it to transform the turtles into violent monstrosities. However, once again, Twin Masters’ plan is thwarted, and the turtles return to their original forms.
- He returns in “Second to None” where they strike up a deal with the Second Squad, possessing them with their chaotic energy, sending them to eliminate First Squad. Lin Chung manages to break the Second Squad from their possession and they create a ruse, catching Twin Masters off guard.
- When Mighty Ray loses his eyes in the two-parter “The Eyes of Mighty Ray,” Twin Masters claims them, using the eyes to create a chaotic storm in one of his many attempts to destroy Hidden Kingdom. Realizing that by overloading his eyes, he could burn out Twin Masters, Mighty Ray eats several bananas at once, causing Twin Masters to writhe in pain. Mighty Ray retrieves his eyes but Twin Masters brags yet again, saying that the chaotic storm would still decimate everything. Lin Chung is forced to enter the storm, but he succeeds at disabling it, much to Twin Masters’ anger.
- “Return of the Pterodactyls” sees Twin Masters tricking the Bald Eagle king and his subjects into drinking tree sap that reverts them into their prehistoric forms…pterodactyls. This results in the creation of a purple substance that Twin Masters intends to revert all life in Hidden Kingdom with.
- In “Demon Heartland,” Twin Masters orders High Roller to relocate his demon heart so that it would not be destroyed as he would grow weaker. When First Squad arrive to the island, they are confronted with the Sea Elephant and Hermit Crab Kingdoms. However, this is revealed to be a ruse; what was believed to have been Twin Master’s heart was a chaotic bomb. Twin Masters then seals First Squad and the animal kings and their troops in the cave. After escaping, the Hermit Crab King and the Sea Elephant King join Big Green.
- ApeTrully is captured again in “Animals Inside Pt. I & 2” by High Roller and the Zebra Brothers. When Lin Chung and the others arrive in the form of their spirit animals, Twin Masters reveals he had relentlessly struck ApeTrully with bolts of their chaotic energy. ApeTrully is seen being aware of what was happening to him, but he was unable to resist. Twin Masters then has a possessed ApeTrully try to kill First Squad, only for Lin Chung to then free him with his Harmonic Energy. ApeTrully faces off against Twin Masters and fires the chaotic energy from within his body back to them.
- Twin Master’s next plan on destroying Hidden Kingdom involves forcing Oyster-Rahmas (oyster-piranha hybrid animals) to drain the ocean, which would also suck all Hidden Kingdom down with it. He positions them to begin eating away at a trench called “The Trench of Lost Souls.” Whilst fighting First Squad, they try to push Lin Chung into the trench, gleefully telling him that they’d hope he enjoys having his soul ripped out.
- “Collison Course” sees Twin Masters using their powers to remove an asteroid from its course, with having it crash land into Hidden Kingdom as the outcome. This forces First Squad to embark into space to destroy the asteroid.
- Other minor plans involved Twin Masters transforming ants into abominations and forcing them to dig deep into the ground thereby allowing molten magma to engulf Hidden Kingdom and putting chaotic gems into the Swamp Hippo King’s mouth, making him mindlessly obliterate everything around him without his consent.
- Lastly, we have the “Bronze Giant” two-part series finale. In the episode, Twin Masters cocoons himself with water from Lake Thai-Gi which was the source of Hidden Kingdom’s life energy. Everything around Hidden Kingdom begins to die, until Twin Masters emerges from his energy cocoon with ultimate power. They boast saying that now they could bring death to all life – which of course includes High Roller, Bearstomp, the Zebra Brothers. Twin Masters continues their campaign of absorbing life energy into themselves when Lin Chung is advised by his mentor that to defeat Twin Masters, he needed to construct what is known as the Bronze Giant. However, they needed specifically 107 heroes to activate the Bronze Giant. So leads to the enemy mine situation with Bearstomp and the Zebra Brothers. They combat Twin Masters, but Twin Masters gradually gets the better hand. Realizing that to defeat Twin Masters it must take all of the harmonic energy everyone had within them, Lin Chung calls on everyone to lend their harmonic energy. Shocked, Twin Masters goes on a tirade about being invincible before exploding.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors
One of the first things I remembered about Twin Masters when people like miraculous or Scraggle mentioned Twin Masters in passing was the episode "Time to Go Home." In it, we learn that Twin Masters was originally a human prince who became what they are because of having Harmonic Energy getting mixed into him by Lin Chung's actions. Now, Twin Masters wasn't actually a nice guy prior to their transformation. They had already desired to take over Hidden Kingdom and threw Lin Chung into prison for stopping him from killing two komodo dragons. But one of the first issues I am concerned about is whether being exposed to Harmonic Energy caused a drastic change in Twin Masters' initial moral agency. To me, there are no indications that his moral agency was warped from their transformation. They still retain that desire to rule over Hidden Kingdom, but now as a chaotic overlord before eventually opting to destroy all life in the series finale. This feels like one of those cases similar to other examples like the Lord Commander in that they enjoyed the powers they accidentally received and embraced them rather than being corrupted by the power itself.
As for mitigating factors, there are none. Twin Masters had a father thousands of years ago that they had no deep relationship with, and they generally despise everything else because of its order so there's that. As for the series itself, the show is a lighthearted comedy where High Roller doesn't even begin to portray himself as imposing. Twin Masters, however, is consistently played as a serious threat, and the destruction they intend to bring is never sugarcoated.
Heinous standard
Blows a majority of the villains out of the water. Their plans always amount to trying to perform mass destruction and extinction, with them trying to make a volcano erupt and trying to pass teh blame to First Squad is also pretty nasty.
Conclusion
Overall, I can see the argument on Twin Masters' moral agency so I am ultimately indifferent towards Twin Masters qualifying or not. But at least, we'll have a definitive answer.
Edited by AustinDR on Aug 21st 2018 at 6:33:48 AM
Twin Masters
Also, I'm reading The American Way because there a guy that seems like a good candidate. Let's wait for it, ok?
Watch me destroying my countryOh Ive watched it as well. I can vouch for him.
for twin masters. There is no indication that agency has been impaired here, he just got powers and got Drunk on the Dark Side.
By the way has anyone ever been discussed from The Last Vampire. I started reading the series, so was wondering if there's been discussion on it.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 20th 2018 at 12:53:02 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Eh, I'll give a slight yes for Twin Masters (voiced by Scott McNeil, who also voiced Ali Al-Saachez and Wrath-Amon.
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Yeah reading up Yaksha (Ive only started reading the first book but from the trope page and reviews on the book I got this info) sound pretty vile but seems to have quite a few redeeming qualities. Is the guy from two, The guy with the bad acne whose an aversion of Evil Is Sexy as said by the ymmv page.
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He was also voiced by Brad Swaile when he was the Prince Yang Tu
Edited by miraculous on Aug 20th 2018 at 2:12:14 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Well from reseacrh of the other books it seems the guys from books 3,4 and 5 dont qualify (Arcturo the alchemist and Kalilinka). The guy from six is an evil sorceror who apparently plans on using the protagnist to tip the balance in favour of evil while the ones from the newest books 8 and 9 are a race that plan to wipe out humanity with a virus.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 20th 2018 at 2:30:33 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Setting?
The American Way. Set in the Sixties, The superheroes had actual superpowers but their fights are stagged for the USA goverment to be used as Anti-Communist propaganda, eventually The Protagonist and Narrator (a white liberal) is contacted to join them and after the death of one of their members, he decide add a Afro American to the team to help with the racial issues.
Eventually, things go out of control and the FDDA and the Civil Defense Corps have to deal with an actual supervillain, which is, this guy.
Who is Hellbent?
A Psycho for Hire of excellence. He is described as a genius Serial Killer that was captured for the USA goverment and used to do it's dirty job.
Being freed to kill Cuban ambassadors, Hellbent manages to escape from American control and went in a killing spree starting by killing a entire bus full of Afro American activists except the brother of Afroamerican superhero' New American, which is left alive but paralytic.
When our Group of Superheroes go to capture him, he manages to take Freya' magical Axe and uses it to kill The Big Girl Freya and damage the face of Superman' Captain Ersatz Pharos with it before running away.
Being seen in the next number, is shown that in his free time, Hellbent had already killed at least a children, by showing him having his body in his car.
Sending carts to bait New American into going rogue and capturing him (adding fuel to his already preexistent issues of him being rightfully unable to deal with the racism of his team and being domicially incarcerated), New American / Jason Fisher goes to search for the hints of Hellbent who stagged everything to get him more violent in the process until finding him in a cabin in the forest where Hellbent tries to burn him alive.
Jason uses his Heroic Willpower and manages to survive while also beating Hellbent, who asks him to give him the last chop.
Now, this is the iffy part, Hellbent talks about how he and Jason are Not So Different in their role as state-sponsored supers (Superhero and supervillain) and how his goal was make people questioning society flaws before confessing having raped Jason' brother.
Then Jason kills him. And if you are wondering, the white racist superheroes take it as a sign of Jason having become He Who Fights Monsters, because the Sixties.
Heinous Standard?
As for the heinous standard. This is a dark setting with the FDAA having killed people in order to create a perfect facade for their superheroes (the heroes themselves aren't aware of it). However, Hellbent is mostly a singular serial killer that goes to relieve his love of killing people. And he was The Corrupter to Chet, The Man Behind the Man of the story which staggered most of the awful things there (Chet is a candidate as well, he does have considerably more resources than Hellbent).
Redeeming traits?
Now, this is the complex thing. He is a nasty fuck talking about truth while he kill people but his last talk with Jason is interesting.
Hellbent confesses that his intention is making people think about the flaws of society and thus he staggered everything to get himself get killed for Jason, a black superhero killing a white Serial Killer.
...however this don't really work given that he tried to burn him alive in that very page. Is true that Hellbent was tauting Jason, but as we later discover by his follower Chet, the whole mess with Jason was to make racial tensions worse and cause a internal fight between the Civil Defense Corps to get a excuse to nuke them and also nuke other cities.
His last line implies genuine redeeming traits, but given his follower behavior and their ideology/religion based on seeing death as truth, it was more likely a lie.
Verdict?
It depends if you see his last line as sincere, however given that his follower was trying to nuke cities and neither of them seem to had any respect for human decency at all, it was likely a lie to get Jason kill him and get Jason hated for his fellow superhumans.
Pretty good comic IMO. I recommend it anyway.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 20th 2018 at 5:03:25 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Mr. H and the twins
I've got a question, any issue with quotes being taken from side materials for qualified candidates?
IPP Wick Check created.
Hellbent
Seems its one of thoose cases where his final words are just left to Alternative Character Interpretation and the rest of his character doesnt seem to indicate he's being genuine.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Considering he then IMMEDIATELY taunts him about raping his brother? I'm not inclined to think of that as redeeming. I'll give a yes.
Southern Cross also seems like a rather unpleasant fellow (though he may just be more a Hate Sink).

EDIT: Only 2 de-potholings for Redwall, and one each for Rune Scape & Yu-Gi-Oh:
Edited by ACW on Aug 20th 2018 at 2:26:18 PM