During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Sure on the Count. And as for the Aion rewrite, I'm cool with the second one brah! @43110
Alright, this is already 2 week mark on a movie called the Darkest Minds and what's my opinion on it? Mmmm... I think there are 2 characters that is worth to discuss on but I'm not sure if they can count or not. Without further ado, let's begin the EP shall we. The first one is a spoiler alert so beware!
What's the Work
The Darkest Minds is a 2018 film based on a book of the same name. So the story is about a mysterious disease that wipe out some of the American Children called IAAN or better known as Idiopathic Adolescent Acute Neurodegeneration. Most of the survivor in there have a strange like abilities. However, most of them are placed in a concentration camps because the government feared that they will be a threat to them someday.
In the camps, they are classified based on their psionic abilties: Greens are the least dangerous and have impossible intelligence and memories; Blues are mildly dangerous and have telekinetic abilities; Golds are somewhat dangerous and have the ability to control electricity; Reds are highly dangerous and have the ability to generate and manipulate fire; Oranges are lethal and have the ability to enter and control the minds of others.
The story however, focuses on a 16 year old girl called Ruby Daly. Who survived the disease at the age of 10. However, like most of the children, she was sent into a Concentration Camp. Ruby herself was diagnosed as an Orange and as a result, some people in there tried to eliminate her because of her dangerous level. Needless to say, Ruby disguise herself as a green esper so that she could escape from the confinement. And while running away, she met with other teenagers who are hiding from the government. They are Liam (Who is a blue esper), Charles, nicknamed "Chubbs" (The Green Esper) and Suzume or "Zu" (The Gold Esper). While they're hiding from the government, they tried to find a refugee of the other espers lead by a person known as "The Slip Kid". However, once they entered the refugee camp, The Slip Kid is actually not what he seems...
Who is He/What Has He Done
So yes. The Slip Kid is the guy that I will propose today. He is also known as Clancy Gray, the President's son. He is initially presented as a benevolent leader of the East River refugee and is actually one of the last of the Orange Espers. Needless to say however, he does have a shady things that he has done.
It was actually revealed that Clancy used this refugee in order to recruit the Espers so that he could make an army which he could use them to cause a massive war which would cause massive deaths on a global scale. When Ruby and the gang arrived on the refugee, Clancy still puts a benevolent mask towards them and took interest with Ruby as they're both the last of the Orange Espers. He offers to teach her how to master her telepathy and she accepts it and ended up forming a bond with her.
However, the bond is rather severed as when Clancy asked her to teach him how to erasing someone's memory and telling her to think about what happened on her tenth birthday. While she was memorizing about her childhood, she then snaps when Clancy tries to rape her which resulted of her wanting to leave at night and Liam tries to confront Clancy on what he has done.
When Ruby and co. are trying to escape the refugee. Unfortunately, Clancy finds them and rounds all of the espers by calling the Government Soldiers and reveals the motive that he will try to wage war. When the kids are trying to escape, they were getting killed by the soldiers and the Red Espers who can breathe fire. When Clancy fights with Ruby, he expresses disappointment that she did not accept his offer of world conquest and tries to erase the memory of him trying to rape her. Ruby manages to telepathically cause a helicopter to crash into Clancy and escapes with the others. Clancy is last seen rallying an army of the government to fight against Ruby and an organization who opposes the Government known as the League. So yeah, a fucking Karma Houdini here boys.
Heinous Standard
Baseline standard? I think he meets it. Trying to recruit the children and cause the war which would result in death on a global scale and attempting to rape Ruby and trying to erase her memory so that he could be his would also score on the personal level a little bit. The only heinous people other than him would be the President (The second candidate that I will bring) and the League. Though the latter has a good intentions. I think Clancy still makes it for the Heinous Standard. However, the main issue for him qualifying as a CM lies on the Mitigating Factor section.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
So I won't going to downplay this. Clancy has an interesting Freudian Excuse that probably could prevent him being on this trope. Basically he was experimented on for quite some time, probably at the first beginning of the outbreak of the IAAN. (And he was named the Slip Kid for a reason as he escaped the camp for like 4 times). And you could argue that his torturous experience could explain some of his actions. However, I should note some things: Clancy has no compunctions on children being used or using the government for his own benefits. Not only that. His WIE actions... Doesn't hold up at all. He said that he makes such a big deal at making the adults "accept" the psi children as not monsters, but with him using them to create an army, he is no better than any normal person. He is also an attempted rape who does view Ruby as solely his possession and tries to kill her when she refuses to become what he wanted. So yeah, I think it removes any good intentions or Freudian Excuse he had. But I'm still torn on this one if he still has a legitimate FE or just throw it completely out of the trash. I'll give a chance for Austin to gave him his thoughts on this.
Final Verdict
If he doesn't qualify, I'm cool with that. But wait until Austin gave his opinion regarding this character. In the meantime, I will try to propose another candidate from this movie at a later time.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."New proposal, from Lovely But Deadly.
Who's the candidate?
"Honest" Charley Gilmarten, a drug lord.
What does he do?
Gilmarten has cornered the local drug market, and sells everything, from marijuana to PCP. And his strains are highly addictive, ruining the lives of everybody he sells to (this film is super Anvilicious. This has led to several overdoses and deaths in drug-induced accidents. This includes minors, mostly high schoolers (including the majority of the honour roll), but including enough middle schoolers that at least one dealer specializes in them. After Mary Ann "Lovely" Lovitt's brother drowns while high, she exposes the guy who sold him the drugs to the police. Gilmarten has his men sneak in and hang the dealer with a necktie.
We first properly meet Gilmarten at a high school party, where he is meeting with football star and field operatove Mantis Managian. However, this is no ordinary party. You see, Gilmarten and Mantis take the girls they got hooked on their drugs, and pimp them out for a high. These parties happen on a regular basis. Gilmartem, who's on his 50's, also rapes some of the girls himself. Gilmarten meets Mary Ann at this party, and orders Mantis to bring her to him later so he can rape her. Our heroine beats his ass, which leads Gilmarten to think Mantis is trying to take over. The drug lord sends a couple of goons to settle the score. They get one of Mantis' sycophants to lure him into a trap by threatening to pull his teeth out, then beat Mantis up and put him in a box. Taking their victims to the school boiler room, the goons then blast steam into the box, cooking Mantis alive. Gilmarten then has Mary Ann captured, and locked in a crate to Taiwan to starve to death. However, our heroine escapes, busts up the operation, and leaves Gilmarten to be arrested.
Heinousness?
Big Bad, sets it.
Mitigating factors?
While he acts all Faux Affably Evil, it's all a facade. He's just a ruthless bastard who only cares about himself.
Verdict?
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Aug 17th 2018 at 3:56:36 AM
Every candidate since my last post, expect Slip on whom i will abstain.
Anyway found this
- Even Evil Has Standards: Not many, mind you, but even Gul'dan is disturbed by Cho'gall's willingness to bring about the apocalypse.
Charlie.
I think that was discussed as Pragmatic Villainy: If the world got destroyed, there'd be nothing to rule over.
Charley
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Thats not Even Evil Has Standards. It fits better under Evil Versus Oblivion
Edited by miraculous on Aug 17th 2018 at 5:49:36 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Count Hans von Hackelnberg.
The Slip Kid Clancy Gray
"Honest Charley" Gilmarten
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Same above.
Anyway, I've got the green light to put names of characters I seek to EP on a To-Do list in the CM Drafts page, similar to the to-dos on the Magnificent Bastard Drafts page.
IPP Wick Check created.I'm the one who gave the okay; if anyone else wants to use it, go ahead (just put it BELOW the entries).
This
swapping will be done tomorrow sometime.
Here are my Cannibal Mercenary drafts:
- Colonel Nikum Promclair is a former ranger turned merciless drug lord in charge of the Kankoom Empire, as well as the leader of the Draculas, an army of cannibalistic soldiers. Hanging anyone who invades his territory, Nikum orders his men to invade a village and kidnap Wilson Manna. Taking Wilson and his men hostage, he has one walk through a line of exploding firecrackers, buries his body, and drives a spike into his head to be fed to his soldiers, later clawing out Namchoke’s eyes and having his soldiers feed on him before strapping lit dynamite to Wilson and his remaining troops.
- Nikum’s bald, nameless Co-Dragons, one wearing stripped pants, the other wearing a jacket, are a brutal, sadistic duo. Ordered by Nikum to find Wilson and his squad, Stripped Pants leads a raid on a village and has his men kill everyone there, with Stripped Pants killing a child to lure Wilson out. Taking them back to base, Jacket forces a man to walk through a series of firecrackers exploding under his crotch, later killing Jumpa when she tries to protect Wilson. With Wilson and Bun-yun making an escape, Stripped Pants shoots at them, succeeding in killing the already wounded Bun-yun and heavily traumatizing Wilson.
Also
for Charlie.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Aug 17th 2018 at 8:24:11 AM
It's Spooky Month!

To simply put, back then Dane wouldn't have counted for the same reason Ares of "God of War" wouldn't have counted (and that's without the redeeming qualities given to Dane in "Gat Out of Hell"). You have to something the blows the Villain Protagonist out the water in order to even be considered (like the "God of War" version of Odin for example). That's why villains like Satan or Dr. Babylon could count but not a villain like Dane Vogel or Killbane.
Edited by Beast on Aug 16th 2018 at 12:00:06 PM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."