TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#125951: Aug 6th 2018 at 9:04:46 PM

So, it's looking like Mezhan Kwaad is probably going to be a no (and fair enough) but it does make me wonder about how we handle the heinous standard in big settings with lots of parts that are mostly independent of each other. Several people have brought up the Sith (who, as an organization, are essentially irrelevant to the NJO storyline, getting only a couple of cursory mentions - individual Sith, like Vader or Palpatine, get namedropped more often, but of course, owing to the timeframe, don't actually appear) or Zenoc Quah (who, while a Vong Shaper, is from a completely different storyline written years later and set a century down the line). I'm not complaining about the votes, as again, this was a candidate I was on the fence on - but I am wondering how much relatively disconnected setting elements can influence the heinous standard for a particular candidate. I'll admit I was considering Kwaad primarily in the context of the NJO at large and Conquest specifically, and being overshadowed by Sith or Legacy characters genuinely never occurred to me. Just thinking about situations like this for future reference.

Edited by MasterGhandalf on Aug 6th 2018 at 10:04:41 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#125952: Aug 6th 2018 at 9:04:57 PM

No to Kwaad. Even among Yuuzhan Vong I don't think she measures up to Zenoc Quah, who does much more with much fewer resources, including irreparably destroying his own people's reputation because he thought they'd gone soft and weren't True Scotsmen anymore.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#125953: Aug 6th 2018 at 9:12:09 PM

[up][up] But even then, other Vong have horrific crimes to their names, too.

MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#125954: Aug 6th 2018 at 9:16:19 PM

Yeah, that post was really just me thinking out loud about a specific issue. I'm cool with Kwaad getting voted down, and am just trying to navigate some of the specific issues brought up.

Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#125955: Aug 6th 2018 at 9:19:06 PM

In response to 43110: It's late here, but I just wanted to send a quick thanks for the response. If no one's bothered by the possibility of answering extra questions for people who have only seen an anime adaptation where a character doesn't qualify in cases where they only qualify in the original source, and they see the unspecified CM entry for them, then I guess it's not a problem. Besides, the more I think about it, this is only the case with a few odd characters, and Kosuke Kanzaki/the doctor is probably one of the very few cases where he not only qualifies in the manga but not the anime, but differs a lot in portrayal and crimes altogether.

On that note, I'm pretty sure I've inquired about everything that I wanted to, at least for the time-being. Oh, and whoever's in charge of applying rewrites to the main pages for CM characters from anime and manga might want to do that with Maestro Delphine's entry; I noticed her rewrite was applied to the page of Last Exile's subjective tropes, but not the main list of complete monsters from anime and manga, so there are currently two different entries for her, depending on where you look. Thanks again for accepting my suggestions to embellish and improve her entry!

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#125957: Aug 6th 2018 at 10:06:33 PM

[tdown]Kwaan.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#125958: Aug 6th 2018 at 10:53:03 PM

[tup]Dio and adding jurrasic baddies to never again list (Im seriosuly suprised these guys keep coming up)

[tdown]Kwaan

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#125959: Aug 6th 2018 at 11:06:27 PM

[tup] to DIO (again), and the Jurassic Park baddies to the Never Again page.

[tdown] to Kwaan

Now then I’ve got another potential CM candidate from a show that I’ve just finished watching called Dead Set.

What’s the Work?

Dead Set is a British Horror miniseries created by Charlie Brooker (The same guy that created Black Mirror). The show takes place on set of Big Brother, (Dead Set itself is an entirely fictional story) . It chronicles a zombie outbreak that strands the housemates and production staff inside the Big Brother House, which quickly becomes a shelter from the undead. However we soon learn that just like with all other zombie fiction Humans Are the Real Monsters and one of those humans just happens to be my candidate. Say hello to Patrick Goad!

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Patrick Goad is the producer of the fictional Big Brother who proves to be quite the Jerkass. Then the zombie outbreak happens and he proves to something much worse.

When the zombies break in to the control room Patrick abandons his crew, locking the door right in front of them leaving them to die while he attempts to escape. He also deliberately throwing a man in a wheelchair into the path of a zombie, causing the handicapped man’s excruciating death and transformation into a zombie.

He later encounters an evicted houseguest and later the other houseguests and his employee, Kelly, whom forces to let him into the Big Brother house by torturing them with loud noises. Once he gets into the Big Brother he suggests that they chop up the bodies of the dead houseguests to feed to the zombies while they try to escape much to the shock of the other survivors; he decides to chop the bodies up himself while the other look at him with disgust.

Kelly’s boyfriend, Riq, arrives at the Big Brother house and tells them that he couldn’t find any survivors and that they’re safer in the Big Brother house. Patrick doesn’t like to hear that and attempts to escape himself, uncaring if his actions will cause the zombies to come and eat everyone else. They decide to tie up Patrick so he wouldn’t hinder their chances of survival.

He manages to do so anyway by manipulating one of the houseguest, Joplin, onto his side by saying that the rest of the houseguests hate him and insult him behind his back. This manages to succeed and both Patrick and Joplin hold the other survivors hostage as the attempt to escape the set with Patrick personally killing Kelly’s boyfriend Riq.

He then orders Joplin to open the gate so the hoards of zombie will come in the eat the survivors while he himself tries to escape abandoning Joplin to the Zombie hoard. This doesn’t work out for Patrick as he get eaten by the zombie hoard while everyone else gets turned into a zombie thanks to Patrick’s actions and selfishness.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Unless having a high paying job at a very successful reality show counts as an excuse, then none whatsoever!

As for redeeming qualities, he has none either. He doesn’t care about the other survivors at all only keeping them around to he can feed them to zombies. While he has a few humorous moments they do nothing to detract from his horrible atrocities, all to save his own skin.

Heinousness

Now we don’t know what caused the zombie outbreak to happen and the zombie themselves can’t qualify due to lacking moral agencies, but out of all the people with moral agency Patrick Goad has the most onscreen crimes. Patrick has killed off his entire production crew and disabled guy in a wheelchair, Kelly’s boyfriend Riq, and through Joplin the rest of the survivors, racking up a body count of possibly dozens. So I think he gets a pass here

Final Verdict?

I’ll leave that to you guys!

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 6th 2018 at 8:13:31 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#125961: Aug 7th 2018 at 1:12:39 AM

[tup]Patrick

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#125964: Aug 7th 2018 at 2:13:56 AM

For kwaad could we perhaps not compare heinous to the overall SW universe but instead focus on her specific era

Things are really about to get Fun around here
NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#125965: Aug 7th 2018 at 2:39:44 AM

[up]That’s not how it works.

[tup]Patrick

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#125966: Aug 7th 2018 at 2:58:43 AM

Late write up for Bloody Mary from the Rusty game:

jjj
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#125968: Aug 7th 2018 at 3:27:02 AM

Bob, please add to the Drafts (what was the vote count?).

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#125971: Aug 7th 2018 at 3:59:01 AM

Uh could somone check the user who messed with Darkling's character page in The Grisha Trilogy . It just looks odd now and it seems to have been totally rewritten in a how shall we say more "sympathetic view" to him shall we say. Is anyone familiar enough with the book series to re-tweak it back.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#125972: Aug 7th 2018 at 4:03:05 AM

[tup] to Patrick Star.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#125973: Aug 7th 2018 at 4:05:47 AM

[tup] Patrick Goad

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#125974: Aug 7th 2018 at 4:20:24 AM

[up][up][up] Oh boy. I think I remember during the original effortpost that someone said Darkling's a classic Draco in Leather Pants...

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

Total posts: 326,048
Top