During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'm also all good with putting JP on the "Never Again" list although I do have some curious if we get cases on Adaptational Villainy, y'know in the event the books have like a novelization or comic adaptation where say Mills gets more villainous ?
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
As said earlier, we'll worry about that if the time comes.
to Lucifer.
Bored now. Making an effort post.
What’s the work?
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: The 7th Stand User is a fanmade RPG of Stardust Crusaders. Taking place in an alternate universe that was created as a result of the acceleration of time from Part 6, this game has you primarily play as a new protagonist of 8 possible different looks (4 boys, 4 girls), whose stand is determined based off a personality test before the game starts. I have a love-hate relationship with the game because while the combat’s fun, and it does the concept of a self-insert into a story really well since all the other crusaders still have their moments to shine (hence why I said primarily, since there are battles where the protagonist isn’t even there) the game throws a lot of unfair difficulty spikes your way, and for some dumb reason, most of the time you can only carry around 1 other party member with you, so grinding the other crusaders is needlessly tedious. But I digress.
Just like in canon, Jotaro’s mother falls sicks due to her own stand as a result of Dio’s awakening, so you along with the other crusaders head to Egypt to kill Dio and save Holly’s life. There’s also a side story about a vampire woman named Vins who’s trying to eliminate the protagonist due to him (and several other characters created for this game) potentially getting in the way of Jotaro discovering Dio’s diary, and as a result, stopping the events of Part 6 from happening, but that’s not too important to this effort post. Anybody with at least a cursory knowledge of JoJo probably knows who I’m proposing.
Who is he? What does he do?
Dio Brando is one of the two main villains of the game. Much like in canon, he successfully stole the body of Jonathan Joestar, gained the stand The World, and intends to create a world with himself as ruler and all humans as either his followers or prey.
Many, if not all of the actions he does in Stardust Crusaders happen or can potentially happen in the game. These actions include infecting Kakyoin and Polnareff with flesh buds to force them into being his minions, knowing that said flesh buds will kill them eventually, accomplish their goals or not, sending Grey Fly to crash a passenger plane full of innocents when the heroes attempt to take a plane to Egypt, having his loyal servant Enya Geil murdered to ensure that she doesn't divulge his powers, forcing Senator Phillips to drive at lethal speeds through a crowd of people to catch up with the protagonists, killing Senator Phillips when that’s done, and draining the blood of countless innocents to heal himself after attaching his head to Jonathan’s body.
There are also a decent amount of new crimes added to Dio’s repertoire in this game. For starters, Dio has several stand users newly created for this game unleash their stands on the innocent, such as a woman named Kate Honeybee using her stand of creating and commanding hornets to help Forever in murdering sailors on the ghost ship, or having an assassin named Faith, who can create and command Fireflies that literally breathe fire, secretly kill every person resting in an inn to draw Joseph and the protagonist out.
In the event that you avoid having to deal with Mannish Boy and his stand Death 13, either by healing his fever, or repairing the other damaged plane (for context, on their way out of Saudi Arabia in canon, they book a propeller plane, but it’s at risk of getting cancelled last moment due to its owner intending to take a baby sick of fever to a hospital, the baby turning out to be an enemy stand user. To avoid losing time, Joseph agrees to take the baby to the hospital since the only other plane is broken) you find out that he also had a man named Gai Nijimura, who turns out to be the father of Okuyasu and Keicho from Part 4, assigned to crash the return plane the Joestars would come back to Japan in if they decide to abandon their mission to kill Dio even though they’d no longer be a threat if that happens. (Though when you found that out, since you avoided fighting Mannish Boy, that original mission is abandoned, and Dio simply has him sent to kill you period)
After Kakyoin gets taken out of commission by N’Doul, the player can decide to spend time watching over Kakyoin at the hospital (this causes you to skip fighting Anubis). If this happens, Dio has the Oingo Boingo brothers, surprisingly semi-competent here, set explosives in the hospital to kill the injured Kakyoin, endangering the countless doctors and other patients at the hospital. If the player has accumulated enough Bad Karma throughout the game, and has helped Polnareff kill Vanilla Ice, the protagonist can potentially accept Dio’s offer to them and Polnareff to join him. If the protagonist accepts, and if the protagonist accumulated high enough friendship points with Polnareff and Kakyoin throughout the game, both Dio and the protagonist will manipulate them into betraying and killing the Joestars.
If canon Dio’s backstory doesn’t disqualify him, no reason why 7th stand user Dio’s same backstory would.
Any other mitigating factors?
If the protagonist (as well as potentially Kakyoin and/or Polnareff) betray the Joestars and pledge loyalty to him, he’ll praise all of them and turn them into vampires as a reward rather than outright kill them. That’s the closest thing to a nice thing he does throughout the game. Personally I don’t buy it as a disqualifier since it’s essentially “You’re loyal to me, so I’m letting you be my servants” that gives himself powerful underlings.
Heinous by the standards of the story?
The only person who comes close to him in heinousness is the other main villain, Vins (who doesn’t count due having a son she cares about, and turns out to be the mother of Weather Report from Part 6) and even then, she doesn’t really surpass him. She turns countless people into zombies, aids a terrorist group, kills members of said terrorist group when she’s through with them, orchestrates a massacre in a mansion, and tries to needlessly kill game original characters, Berlin and Alicia, even after they give her Dio’s diary, but she’s at her worst, on par with Dio’s cruelty, and doesn’t take things to as great a scale as he does.
Final thoughts?
For the record, yes, J. Geil and Terrence T D’arby are both in this game, and while they have the crimes they do in canon, I personally don’t feel like effort posting either of them due to how, unlike Dio, they don’t really have any new crimes other than potentially trying to kill the protagonist as well as the other Crusaders (and for J. Geil, is arguably less heinous since we don’t see a flashback of him raping and killing Polnareff’s sister like in canon, though I'm not 100% sure if I'd call it offscreen villainy since we do see the naked Sherry due to the Judgment stand making a clay replica of her in her final moments)
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Aug 6th 2018 at 10:10:42 AM
Okay, I'm going to go ahead and EP a character I've been toying with for a while; not sure if she's a keeper or not, but thought I'd go ahead and get her out there.
What's the work?
The New Jedi Order is a nineteen-book Story Arc in Star Wars Legends, set approx. 20 years after the Battle of Endor, concerning the invasion of the Galaxy Far Far Away by the Yuuzhan Vong. The Vong are a race of vicious humanoids (I think of them as a sort of mix of Space Orcs and Space Drow) who follow a bloodthirsty religion and have a strictly regimented society. Most of the Vong are what they are because they've been thoroughly indoctrinated by their culture and genuinely believe they're in the right and doing the gods' work, but there are exceptions. Onimi, the true mastermind behind the war and the series' ultimate Big Bad, is already listed as a CM. Our candidate today is much less significant to the overall storyline, but plenty bad in her own right.
Who is Master Shaper Mezhan Kwaad?
Vong society is strictly organized into various hereditary castes who each perform a specialized function; one such caste are the Shapers, Mad Scientists who create and maintain the Organic Technology that the Vong, who consider machines abominable, exclusively rely on. Most Shapers are utterly bound by tradition, viewing any knowledge not contained in the "protocols" that were allegedly handed down directly by the gods to be heretical. Mezhan Kwaad, a Shaper who holds the prestigious title of Master, disagrees - she's perfectly willing to practice "heresy" (aka the scientific method), and uses the techniques she discovers solely to advance her own ambitious. Arrogant and cruel, Mezhan openly scorns the existence of the Yuuzhan Vong gods, being loyal to herself alone. She is the Arc Villain of the seventh book of the overall series, Conquest.
What does she do?
Some time before the events of Conquest, Mezhan entered into a brief, passionate love affair with the warrior Vua Rapuung. Romance across caste lines is explicitly forbidden under the Vong religion, and Rapuung eventually decided to break things off. Mezhan, insulted and fearful that Rapuung would reveal the affair and disgrace them both, decided to silence him - she considered killing him, but decided it would be too kind, so instead she infected him with a biological agent that caused Rapuung's various body mods (the Vong are big on implants and general Body Horror) to start to decay. This was taken as a sign of the gods' disfavor, and Rapuung was cast out of the warrior caste and became a Shamed One, the lowest class of Vong society, a demotion that would be considered a Fate Worse than Death. This act of spiteful cruelty would come back to bite Mezhan hard later on.
When Conquest begins, Mezhan arrives on the conquered moon of Yavin 4 with her new apprentice Nen Yim, a fellow heretic. The Vong warriors who'd taken the moon had captured an apprentice Jedi, Tahiri Veila, who was handed over to Mezhan for study - the Vong don't possess the power of the Force in any capacity (long story) and in general are simultaneously fascinated and repelled by it. Mezhan was no exception, and concocted a scheme to create Force-wielding Vong warriors by brainwashing and physically modifying captive Jedi. Tahiri became her first test subject, and Mezhan put her through an extensive program of torture and Mind Rape, most obviously the implantation of Fake Memories (secretly harvested from Nen Yim without her knowledge or consent) in order to convince her that she was, and always had been, a Yuuzhan Vong.
Mezhan's rivals in the Shaper caste, however, suspected her of heresy and finally gathered the evidence to prove it. She and Nen Yim were arrested and, along with their captive, were prepared to be taken off-world. Before they could leave, however, a vengeful Vua Rapuung, accompanied by Tahiri's friend Anakin Solo, attacked. Holding Mezhan at knifepoint, Rapuung forced her to publicly confess how she had destroyed him, forever ruining her reputation. No sooner had she done so, however, Mezhan struck, using concealed weapons to mortally wound Rapuung, slaughter the warriors holding her captive, and incapacitate Anakin. Boasting that there were no gods, that she was a personal servant of the Supreme Overlord, and that she could do whatever she wished, Mezhan prepared to flee - only for Tahiri to use the Force to seize Anakin's lightsaber and decapitate her from behind. So ended the ambitions of Master Mezhan Kwaad.
Heinous in Story?
The Vong in general have morality so alien it borders on the Blue and Orange, but Mezhan Kwaad has the dubious distinction of being vile by anyone's standards. She inflicted a fate worse than death on her lover merely on the suspicion that he might betray her (his own reflections on the event indicate he never had any intention of doing so), and he later explicitly says that he can imagine no fate worse than being her captive. Where other Vong can claim to be following their harsh honor codes and serving the will of the gods, Mezhan has no claim to higher motivations. She openly flouts the beliefs and standards of her society, trusting her position and successes to protect her, and murders anyone who tries to get in her way. Nen Yim, who starts out hero-worshipping her, gradually realizes just how unhinged she was over the course of later books - and, perhaps most tellingly of all, when Tahiri killed her, her implanted personality was still in control. That's right, Mezhan's own creation hated her enough to kill her as soon as her back was turned. Later in the series, among Shamed One rebels who revere Vua Rapuung and the example of the Jedi, Mezhan's name has entered their lore as a byword for the hypocrisy and abuses of the upper castes.
The only thing that really holds her back is that she only actually appears in one book and is a pretty small fish in the grand scheme of things, but she definitely makes an impression.
Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Qualities?
Mezhan Kwaad has no apparent Freudian Excuse of any kind; though she was lovers with Vua Rapuung, the speed and which she betrayed him and the Disproportionate Retribution she gave for an imagined insult would indicate it was based on pure physical attraction rather than emotion on her end. When she meets Rapuung again at the climax of Conquest she barely acknowledges him, dismissing him as "a Shamed One who doesn't know his place" and striking him down at the first opportunity. Though she takes Nen Yim under her wing, there's no affection in that relationship either, and she makes it very clear she considers Nen disposable and would kill her in a heartbeat if she thought she'd betray her. Mezhan is motivated by scientific curiosity, ambition, and cruelty, and nothing else seems to matter much to her at all.
Verdict?
Mezhan Kwaad is a fine figure of an evil Mad Scientist, standing out for cruelty in a society that lionizes sadism and masochism. She's a small fish so far as the overall Story Arc is concerned, but makes an impact beyond her relatively brief role, indirectly setting in motion at least three ongoing storylines (Tahiri's arc, Nen Yim's arc, and the Shamed One rebellion) by the consequences of her evil acts. Given her role and resources, I'd be inclined to give her a
.
Dio
Kwaad.
I found this on Five Nights at Freddy's
- Complete Monster: The Purple Man, also known as William Afton, is the man responsible for all the horror in the series. A Serial Killer, he murdered eleven children and trapped their souls within the animatronics, turning them into bloodthirsty, revenge-seeking monstrosities. In Sister Location, he is revealed to be the CEO of Afton Robotics, a position he used to create animatronics to abduct and murder children. Sending his own son, Michael to his painful death, the boy returns from the dead to suffer as a revenge-driven spirit. He also planned to corrupt his daughter into becoming a killer herself and, after his own death, returns as Springtrap, eager to keep killing.
- The novels have Afton as well. See here for details.
Is it okay if I add a link to Five Nights at Candy's, as apparently they are in the same universe.
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True, though she's also a fairly small scale threat (she also only has one minion). And the "only two victims" wasn't for lack of trying - her lab was explicitly described as being set up for a bunch of Jedi once the warriors managed to get her more than one captive, so that's on them, not her. Not sure if it changes anything, but I think it's worth noting. She's probably one of the characters I've proposed who I'm least committed too, though.
EDIT: I'll also freely admit that "entirely unrelated characters skew the heinous standard" is my least favorite reason for disqualifying someone, so I'm probably biased.
Edited by MasterGhandalf on Aug 6th 2018 at 9:03:39 AM
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Probably not, as Five Nights at Candy's is a fanmade game and not part of the same canon, and Afton has no role in that series.
DIO. Leaning
on Mezhad, was what she did to Tahiri and planning to do to more Jedi considered beyond the pale even by Vong standards? Because from the EP it sounds like what she did to Rapuung is the only thing the Vong as a whole found abhorrent. And the fact other characters with similar or fewer resources did more makes me unsure.
Her experiments on Tahiri were definitely considered abhorrent by the standards of the Vong - but, the Vong being the Vong, not for the reasons you'd think. Torturing and brainwashing people? A-OK, the Vong do it (even to each other) all the time. Actively modifying the programs of torturing and brainwashing biotech to interface with a human's biology? That's heresy of the highest order, since it's tampering with the gods-given protocols. And even conceiving of the idea that an "infidel" could actually become one of the Chosen Race? Utter blasphemy. So, the Vong are weird, and it's a weird situation, but Mezhan Kwaad was definitely transgressing her culture's morality and laws by doing it. The only reason Nen Yim wasn't executed for her part in the affair was that she was just doing what her master told her, and even then got Reassigned to Antarctica for it. The Vong don't look kindly on heretics.
Edited by MasterGhandalf on Aug 6th 2018 at 9:37:04 AM
I dunno, she may have been transgressing the moral standards of her society but the actual heinous acts she was doing weren't really things the Vong had a problem with. The brainwashing and torture are the real heinous deeds, not violating the tenets of her religion, and that stuff is SOP for the Vong. So I think I have to vote
, she's bad but I don't think she has enough deeds even if she's reviled by other Vong.
No to Kwaad. In comparison to the other Yuuzhan Vong including the Yuuzhan Vong who don't count as well as numerous Sith and other characters she's practically nothing that horrific resources or not. Not to mention the numerous other characters who appear once who are arguably more evil than she is.
Edited by Knack on Aug 6th 2018 at 8:52:26 AM

to Lucifer
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."