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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#125551: Aug 1st 2018 at 11:38:55 PM

EDIT NVMND.

Edited by miraculous on Aug 1st 2018 at 11:38:46 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#125552: Aug 2nd 2018 at 12:01:51 AM

@Elfen I mean I GUESS you could say that, I wouldn't say it's a replacement though, more characterization and he would count. Either way it's all good, it's five villains either way.

@Scraggle Lyblac counts though doesn't she? I am not sure if you played the rest of the game by now. Even though Gideon may be a bit short on characterization, it is likely that Lyblac will count it appears which will make it five anyways.

Edited by Knack on Aug 2nd 2018 at 12:12:41 PM

RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from New Zealand (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#125553: Aug 2nd 2018 at 12:42:12 AM

@ Vect: [tup]. To be considered exceptionally evil by an exceptionally evil faction of a galaxy full of psychopaths...that's almost impressive

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#125554: Aug 2nd 2018 at 1:42:06 AM

[tup] Salesman.

Think I'll give a [tup] to Vect (sounds more like It's All About Me than any Freudian Excuse; here's The Torturer's Tale BTW). Doing a quick look, there MAY be one more 40K character who could count: Erebus: Architect of the Horus Heresy.

[tup] Gold.

[tup] Lucia.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#125555: Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:26:11 AM

[tup]Gold, Salesman, Lucia and Vect

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#125556: Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:31:52 AM

[tup] to Lucia.

Alright guys I’ve got a juicy candidate from a show that I’ve finished watching. The show Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams.

What’s the Work?

Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams, or simply Electric Dreams, is a science fiction television anthology series (basically Channel 4’s Spiritual Successor and Amazon’s version of Black Mirror) based on the works of Philip K. Dick.

The first season has ten standalone episodes and one of them “Real Life” revolves around Sarah is a policewoman living in the future sharing a headspace with George, a brilliant game designer living in the present. While both of them try to understand which one of them is "real" and which one is living in a dream, both are pursuing a violent killer whose plans could have shattering consequences. That killer happens to be my candidate, Colin.

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Colin is a local crime boss and is the source of just about everything bad happening throughout the episode.

During the furture (Sarah’s world) he responsible for causing a massacre that led to the deaths of dozens of innocent men, women, and children as well as Sarah’s friends from the police force. This causes Sarah to become very stressful to which her wife give her a headset that allows her to go to the present (George’s world) as a vacation.

Sarah accepts the gifts and uses it to travels to George’s world where during his world she learns what Colin has done to George. First Colin kidnaps George’s wife a sends a video of him torturing George’s wife threatening to kill her unless he give Colin lots of money. When George complies to Colin’s demands only for Colin to send George another video of him killing his wife anyway. Colin then decides he can extort more money from George by kidnapping him demanding that he give him more. When Colin learns that George doesn’t have anymore money he orders his men to cut George’s fingers one by one and force George to eat them.

Good news is that a friend of George comes a rescues him from Colin. Bad new Colin is a Karma Houdini in George’s world, though some closure is brought when in Sarah’s world, Colin gets arrested for his crimes.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Its shown in both George and Sarah’s worlds that Colin is nothing more that a greedy and sadistic gangster who commit mass murder and torture in order to get what he want. There’s nothing justifiable nor redeemable about that in the least.

Heinousness

Just like with Black Mirror and Amazon’s very own Lore, each episode is a standalone story so there no overarching heinous standard. That’s said all the other episodes include alien invasions and dystopian futures but no one in those episodes count either because they’re bundle up into groups, have well intentioned desires, or simply don’t meet the baseline standard.

Colin on the other hand, has no issues with either of those. He clearly has his own personality, makes his own decisions all completely self-serving and no well-intentions whatsoever, and his crimes are very brutal and sadistic even for a gangster, that it makes him standout. So I believe he gets a pass here as well.

Final Verdict

I’ll leave that to you guys!

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 2nd 2018 at 1:29:50 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#125557: Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:38:54 AM

[tup]colin

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#125558: Aug 2nd 2018 at 2:57:50 AM

[tup] to the Salesman, Asdrubael Vect, Mr. Gold, Lucia and Colin.

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#125559: Aug 2nd 2018 at 3:04:38 AM

Yes to Salesman, Vect, Gold,Lucia.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#125565: Aug 2nd 2018 at 5:28:11 AM

[tup] Lucia and [tup] Colin.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#125567: Aug 2nd 2018 at 7:17:39 AM

Yes to C Olin and Lucia. Regarding Erebus...I've considered him, but I don't quite think he's evil enough, or has the personal flourishes that help Fabius, Abaddon or Vect stand out.

Lore: I'd say go for Orcus, honestly.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#125569: Aug 2nd 2018 at 7:59:38 AM

[tup] Colin

[tup] Lucia

Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 2nd 2018 at 10:01:11 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#125570: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:01:34 AM

Not evil enough? Despite architecting (screw you, that's a word! tongue) the event which caused billions if not trillions of deaths? Well, shit.

Out of pure curiosity, what's the alternate way the other Eldar protect themselves from Slaanesh?

[tup] Colin.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#125571: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:03:10 AM

[up] I think that the Other Way was was living more moderate lifes like the Craftworld Eldar.

Dunno. Newbie, but that's what I remember.

Also. Erebus...yeah, I'm wondering the same. He more of less caused Humanity to suffer in the Crapsack World that they are now (now, you can argue that they deserved it, but I'm sure Erebus wasn't doing it for it)

Edited by KazuyaProta on Aug 2nd 2018 at 10:04:40 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#125572: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:04:11 AM

Erebus is responsible for Horus and Lorgar's falls, but he didn't really, to my knowledge, orchestrate events to the letter. Just really fell to Chaos and set everything in motion while Horus and the other Traitor Primarchs took care of the heavy lifting.

Most Eldar caryr a spiritstone, a kind of gem that captures their souls upon death and anchors it to the material world. They get stored in a sort of afterlife on an Eldar world after. Die without it nearby and it's Slaanesh time.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#125573: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:06:36 AM

Ah, gotcha on both accounts.

And yes, VECT DEFINITELY counts. If I'm understanding the EP correctly, most Dark Eldar are overly sadistic anyway, while Vect's the worse of them and only cares about power.

BTW, do any of the 40K monsters (Abaddon, Bile, Vect) get due punishment, or are they all (as of now anyway) Karma Houdinis?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#125574: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:08:28 AM

Absolutely not a goddamn thing as of yet for any of them. Vect is the undisputed master of Comorragh, with only hints that a civil war with the new goddess is coming for him, Abaddon has destroyed Cadia and is set to advance on the Imperium (Failbaddon thinks he's people, so cute) and Fabius is skipping around in space doing whatever he does.

One of the writers wanted to kill Fabius for all the stuff in one of the novels he pulled but the execs shot it down.

I've said it before, too: Any Dark Eldar individually could count as a CM in other settings, but they have some lines and standards that are admittedly self serving, but still sort of exist. Vect doesn't care and happily nukes his own city to solidify his power base.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:08:56 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#125575: Aug 2nd 2018 at 8:11:58 AM

BTW, I've seen both Mad Doctor and Mad Scientist for Bile. Which is it? Or do both work?


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