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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Knack Since: Mar, 2018
#124901: Jul 24th 2018 at 8:00:03 PM

[up] It looks better.

EDIT: On second thought, what Scraggle said works better on a second glance.

Edited by Knack on Jul 24th 2018 at 8:05:02 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#124902: Jul 24th 2018 at 8:01:36 PM

I honestly think Whiterose's current writeup is entirely fine. The current one runs on way too long with far too much needless detail. Irving, though? Is a marked improvement. Remove that chainhole in the start (that's against wiki policy — that and the redeeming qualities of a non-qualifier are completely irrelevant to the example) and I'm entirely in approval of it.

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 24th 2018 at 9:02:16 AM

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#124903: Jul 24th 2018 at 8:08:30 PM

[up] n' [up][up] I think I removed everything now. My only problem with the current Whiterose entry is how it only mentions two of her crimes - one is nearly completely offscreen (the thing about killing Moore in a plane crash).

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#124904: Jul 24th 2018 at 8:42:25 PM

Irving looks good but lets give some serious trimming to the Whiterose one.

Anyways, a while back someone requested we change Shiro's entry to include more spoilers, it got approved and went up on the YMMV sheet but whoever did it expanded it way beyond what whoever did the original (Lighty, I think) had and it makes the whole thing a bit bloated. Now that spoilers are allowed to contain potholes, can we just put the original back up and blank whatever needs to be blanked?:

  • Shiro, real name Kotaro Yanigasawa, was a Mad Scientist focused on utilizing anti-matter in a human body, and the reason Koro-sensei may destroy the world. To this end, he used the famed assassin the God of Death as a human guinea pig in painful experiments, using his own fiancee as their liaison since Yanagisawa figured she was worthless as a hostage. When the God of Death escaped, destroyed the lab and took Yanigasawa's eye, the scientist formed the identity of Shiro and plotted his vengeance. He implanted a boy named Itona with the same tentacles and later abandoned him to die when he'd served his purpose. Mutating the assassin's former protege into a monstrosity, he tested his new success by having him annihilate a giant building—and anybody inside—before attacking Koro-sensei and his students. Having the second God of death attack Koro-sensei, Yanagisawa opted to then have the students attacked, gloating how he'd kill every single one of them painfully and Korosensei would be forced to watch his class die before dying in despair. When his former fiance's sister attempted to help Korosensei, Yanagisawa had her impaled through the chest and gloated how he'd intended to use her as a "replacement" for her sister.

Edited by 43110 on Jul 24th 2018 at 11:44:54 AM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#124905: Jul 24th 2018 at 10:11:42 PM

Huh, somebody finally proposed Grizraz Hearteater. That was another on my list of fantasy villains to write up for this thread if I ever felt like making the time commitment, since I've always been extremely fond of that book and how it mixed Williams's more standard Tolkien pastiching with cats.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#124906: Jul 24th 2018 at 10:18:22 PM

Okay, I've been neglectful and I owe you folks a lot of effortposts coming up. First of all...

What's the work?

Al'Rashad: The City of Myths is a webcomic by Christopher Bird on writing and Davinder Brar on illustration. A gorgeously illustrated story, Al'Rashad opens with the fleet of the Gundring people, an analogue to a sort of medieval, united German kingdom, betrayed and destroyed by pirates. The young king Alric survives when his uncle Halfdar pretends to be him and dies for him, resulting in Alric washing ashore and captured, taken to the mystical, Arabian nights inspired city of Al'Rashad, ruled by a long line of Caliphs. Now, al'Rashad has opened to the outside world with multiple embassies and foreign trade, including to the city of Ra-boka, a mysterious empire with a dark reputation as ruled by undying, sorcerous kings....Alric wakes up in a dark dungeon with other slaves, and soon learns there is more going on,as he and his cellmate plot an escape. Now, that said, let's talk the ruthless man in charge of the slaves. High Lord Dalakhra.

Who is Dalakhra?

Born Dalakhra Ka’Kymal, current High Lord of Ka’Kymal and Protector of Al’Makkoro, Dalakhra expanded his family's holdings in the slave business....in fact, he owns the majority of shares in 9 of the 12 largest slaving companies in all of Al'Rashad. He is also the emissary to Ra-Boka...now Dalakhra's arch-rival is Kahal, the captain of the Caliphate's guard. Kahal has a secret: he and the Caliph's daughter Rayana? Are lovers, but as a peasant he can never marry her. Dalakhra exposed it to the Caliph, and though the Caliph was highly reluctant to do so, he demoted Kahal into slavery. Dalakhra's purposes are far more sinister.

Dalakhra runs the slave pits by drugging the water with a special sort of drug that makes the slaves pliant and dependent, sapping their free will. Turns out he was also behind the pirate Tanquir who sank Alric's ship and killed his crew. Alric and Kahal escape, working to expose the secret plots in the city...it turns out Dalakhra has betrayed Al'Rashad in favor of Ra-boka, but he has no true loyalty to the Bokans either. In fact, Dalakhra wishes to rule. When things proceed...Alric and Kahal manage to reach the Caliph with Rayan to tell him what's happening, only for Dalakhra to get there first and murder the Caliph on the spot. Dalakhra then unleashes his trump card...he's learned a bit from the Bokans. Like making undead soldiers. A process that involves poisoning a good slave enacting a painful, dark ritual that traps their soul in their body, freezing them there, aware of everything, but unable to resist commands. Tireless and near invincible, only destroyed when the head comes off. Dalakhra details just how nasty the process of creating them is...and reveals he's done it to a LOT of others. In fact? He has an army waiting outside the city. With Al'Rashad largely defenseless, Dalakhra is going to lead his army to Al'Rashad, completely with the 'Walkers', skyscraper sized creatures made of bone, to bulldoze the city's walls, march inside and kill everything they see until Dalakhra has the city under his control. There are 700,000 people in the city.

Assuming the role of Califa, Rayana refuses to run and with Alric and Kahal, they make plans to fight back...now, Dalakhra's a smart bastard, and he's planned on the coming Gundring fleet arriving under the banner of Alric's brother, deciding to use them with a spoy aboard the ships, so he can turn them to his advantage. Alric foils the plan as the heroes lead a massive battle against Dalakhra's forces, ending with Kahal scaling the walker Dalakhra is on and engaging his nemesis in a personal duel. Rayana herself, on a flying carpet, manages to distract Dalakhra before he kills Kahal and Kahal throws him from the walker, Dalakhra grabbing one of the protruding bones. Realizing the jig is up, Dalakhra icily tells Kahal to get it over with and Kahal severs his hand, sending Dalakhra plummeting to his death.

The invasion is stopped and Al-Rashad saved, a treaty formed between Gundring and Al'Rashad. Unfortunately...Ra-Boka's plots continue, and Kahal and Rayana are separated as Rayana and Alric are forced to get engaged to strengthen ties between the kingdoms, despite Alric being gay and Rayana loving Kahal...they agree it's just an engagement on paper until Alfric's brother and his wife from Al'Rashad have their own child, but things are at elast peaceful for now...the sequel Ra-Boka has begun, but isn't far in.

Heinousness?

No competition here. Dalakhra is the only major villain in the comic. We only see one Ra-Bokan lord at the end and he's an observer. Dalakhra makes everything happen on his own, and is an independent actor, so pass here.

Mitigating Qualities?

Not a thing. Dalakhra is greed and ambition in one nasty package. He's ruthless, treacherous and sells out Al'Rashad, only to reveal his contempt for the Bokans and his desire to rule free of them, while learning their secrets. His home city means nothing to him, given he murders the Caliph, tries to murder everyone else, ad what he does with his slaves to make his soldiers is monstrous. He's willing to storm Al'Rashad and massacre a not inconsiderate chunk of the 700,000 people there until he gets to become the new boss. The only good thing you can say about him is that he just tells Kahal to 'get it over with' when he realizes he's done for. That's it.

Conclusion?

Fine keep and heartily recommend the comic.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#124907: Jul 24th 2018 at 10:42:10 PM

[tup] to dalakrha

Hey has anyone seen the movie RIPD? If so who thinks the main villain from that movie(not going to spoil it for those who haven't seen it) may be worth a look?

Edited by Kylotrope on Jul 24th 2018 at 10:55:14 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#124908: Jul 24th 2018 at 10:49:42 PM

[tup] Dalakhra

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#124909: Jul 24th 2018 at 10:56:39 PM

@Kylotrope Bobby Hayes? I think hes on my to do list as for now.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#124910: Jul 24th 2018 at 11:02:49 PM

Oh okay nice to know

Things are really about to get Fun around here
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#124914: Jul 25th 2018 at 1:54:44 AM

Question from the edit requests thread: I am wondering whether the exampleless high level pages like Monster.Live Action TV need to be locked if all they do is to list other example subpages.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#124915: Jul 25th 2018 at 2:00:05 AM

[tup] Dalakhra.

Please add the Mr. Robot rewrite(s) to the Drafts. Ditto the Grizraz writeup.

I dunno what we wanna do for Shira.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#124916: Jul 25th 2018 at 3:31:48 AM

[tup] Hearteater and Dalakhra.

Thanks for the warm welcome back. Here's my write up for DD:

Yakuza: Dead Souls: In this non-canon spin off, DD is an arms dealer using Kamurocho as a testing grounds for a zombie plague dubbed Thanatos. Teaming up with Tetsu Nikaido, their first victim is loyal Omi Alliance hatchet man Hayashi. DD later helps Nikaido kidnap Haruka to lure Nikaido’s true target – Kiryu Kazama – to the city. When Nikaido accepts defeat, DD shoots him full of his enhanced Thanatos, turning him into a monster. Responsible for the death of thousands of innocents, DD makes his mark on Japan’s criminal underworld.

Word Count: 87.

I'll let ACW handle formatting and potholes.

As for other Yakuza keeps? There's two from the fourth game who probably count.

One's an unscrupulous Yakuza who set up a fake assassination, sending the pawn to prison while he murdered several of his allies immediately afterwards to gain respect and a promotion, abandoned his oath brother, almost started a gang war to seize power, threatened dozens of lives - including children - and is a coward who used a hostage and a hundred men to confront Kiryu.

The other is a corrupt police chief who covered up said fake assassination in exchange for loyalty, set up a Hellhole Prison with a sadistic warden as a means of getting rid of liabilities, is also happy to hurt children and dreams of controlling both the police and the Yakuza.

Thing is, they retroactively have roles in other games. 4 pulls a lot from the first game for its plot, so there's a lot to explain, and I'm very lazy.

Also Yakuza lets you do Karaoke which is amazing.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#124917: Jul 25th 2018 at 3:34:06 AM

[up] well whenever you’re ready to properly EP them, we’ll always be here smile

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#124919: Jul 25th 2018 at 4:10:40 AM

[tup] to all of the candidates that I missed and welcome back PP!!!

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#124920: Jul 25th 2018 at 4:30:09 AM

@Septimus

Eh. No harm in keeping it locked for stuff like making sure links to the subpages don't get removed by vandals.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#124922: Jul 25th 2018 at 6:02:05 AM

[tup] Dalakhra Ka’Kymal

[tup] Grizraz Hearteater

  • Sword Art Online Progressive: Morte is one of the thousands of players trapped in SAO and the first murderer inside it. Superficially jolly, Morte convinces a desesperate player to scam other players and steal their weapons before trying to get him exectuted for said crime. Reaching the next floor, Morte enjoys killing a likely sentient NPC and manipulates the two biggest guilds of players into fighting each other while he challenges Kirito to a seemingly non-lethal duel and trying to kill him with a Finishing Move and make it look like an accident as he had done to others in the past. The first murderer inside SAO —managing to get people killed despite the heavy restrictions at the time— Morte become the predecessor to the bellow mentioned POH, Johnny Black and XaXa and their guild of murderers.

[down] How this look? Is pretty short but...now I wonder about the order.

You see. Morte is chronologically the first SAO CM, but he come from a spin off set between the Prologue of the first novel and the rest of it (and the first two episodes of the anime adaptations).

The order is a mess. Because unlike the GGO spin-off (which is a Slice of Life and thus no candidates), SAO Progressive is explicitly part of the SAO canon, with references to it in later Main books.

Dunno.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 25th 2018 at 9:50:20 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#124923: Jul 25th 2018 at 6:19:13 AM

Seconding [up][up][up]

As for Morte, since it's an in-canon spinoff (oy), I'd say place him at the end??

Please add to the Drafts.

Edited by ACW on Jul 25th 2018 at 9:59:08 AM

n3xus I am the King! from Somewhere in the Mirror World Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: In season
I am the King!
#124924: Jul 25th 2018 at 7:24:50 AM

Speaking of SAO, I need to fix the series' resident Scrappy's CM entry cuz it's a complete mess:

  • Nobuyuki Sugou/Oberon the Fairy King is the director of research and development at RECT Progress Incorporated, and the one-time fiance of female lead, Asuna Yuuki. He was also completely obsessed with research into the manipulation of human emotion. Following the clearing of Sword Art Online, Sugou trapped three hundred of the surviving players in his own game, Alfheim Online, where he ran experiments on their minds, testing their fear and pain responses. Kidnapping Asuna in the game, he keeps her trapped in a gilded cage at the top of Alfheim's World Tree, while plotting to wed the comatose girl in the real world. When Kirito reaches the top of the World Tree, Sugou uses his administrator abilities to paralyze him, tortures him, and then sexually assaults Asuna in front of him, gloating the entire time about how, once he's freed, he will rape her again in real life. When the plan fails, he attempts to kill Kirito in the real world, attacking him with a knife. In the context of the story, Sugou is as bad as SAO's villains get.

This is all Zi-O's fault!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#124925: Jul 25th 2018 at 7:47:58 AM

Come to think of it, I think ALL of the entries need to be de-potholed and such.


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