During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Gentle Laborer
Giving you all one more toku candidate before i go exploring more old flicks.
What is the work? The Seven Senki is a movie adaptation of Kamen Rider Hibiki, a tokusatsu production that was not even intended to be a KR installment in the first place. In Hibiki, we see the adventures of the Oni, a group of warriors who are in constant battle with man-eating creatures known as Makamou. Though no one in the show counts, The Heavy for the movie is a brutal, sociopathic Psycho for Hire.
Who is Hitotsumi? Born during the Sengoku period, Hitotsumi is a white-haired, intelligent humanoid Makamou and a fearsome warrior who found work as an "Oni Hunter" by socializing with other Makamou, gaining infamy as a prolific Hero Killer with countless victims to his name, appearing in both this film and its alternate retelling, Seven Ogres. Enjoying killing people even when he's not working and assuming the form of an innocent-looking teenager, Hitotsumi is introduced while hunting for Oni in Osaka when he's approached by the guardians of a dragon-based Makamou, and gleefully accepts the offer of working for them since they were doing an "Oni Extermination", happily commenting on how he will fill itself with innocent blood.
Scheming with a tragic, rogue Oni named Kabuki in a plan to make the Oni kill each other, Hitotsumi's job was to supervise Kabuki while he attacked the other Oni. Defeated by Hibiki, Kabuki, who is a Friend to All Children, stops Hitotsumi from eating a boy alive, and in response, Hitotsumi devours him instead, all while mocking the man for believing that he could ally himself with him. Using his illusionary powers to attack Hibiki with Mind Rape, as his illusions are capable of inflicting pain on his victims, Hitotsumi made an attempted on the lives of the Oni before his death. Later returning in Seven Ogres, Hitotsumi disguised himself as Kabuki to mock the memory of the man and tried to exact revenge on the remaining Oni but was destroyed for good.
Freudian Excuse? None, Hitotsumi kills and eats people not because he needs to, but simply because he likes to be bad.
Heinous? Easily the worst Makamou in the Sengoku timeline.
Conclusion? ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
, now i can binge-watch bad movies that were forgotten by society, God bless my soul.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Anyone know The Boys? Both these guys sound nasty, but could use a little work:
- Black Noir, the clone of Homelander, gleefully Eats Babies, commits murder-rapes, and eats hearts with a Slasher Smile. The villainy of the other two contenders for worst monster in the comic, Homelander and Butcher himself, was ultimately Black Noir's fault too. Black Noir drove Homelander insane by gaslighting him with the aforementioned atrocities so he would receive the sanction to kill him, which Noir thought was the only thing that gave his life meaning since he was created to kill Homelander. One of Black Noir's crimes was raping Butcher's wife Becky, which triggered Butcher's vendetta against superhumans.
- John Godolkin, a twisted Expy of Professor Charles Xavier, runs his own private academy for "special" children. However, Godolkin simply kidnaps the children and convinces them they're special, never allowing them to go home again. The children are injected with a formula to give them powers and fill out Godolkin's many teams. However, between the ages of six and nine, Godolkin begins molesting the children and has the older children join in. Any who prove too troublesome are simply eliminated.
Yokai (barely) and Hitotsumi (not the worst KR candidate we've had, but seems to have enough victims to count).
Goku Black
Yokai/Venom and Hitotsumi
Lead Yokai and Hitotsumi.
Yes to both and I can rewrite The Boys candidates in a few days.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Cool. Added to the to-do.
RIP Toriyama
'Yes' to Yokai and Hester.
Honestly...as a massive fan of Monk? I don't think Babcock counts. His entire motive for murdering his wife was to be with his mistress.....who he is still with in the present, having a fairly normal, seemingly loving relationship with. She even helps him commit his murders.
COULD she just be a trophy wife? Maybe. But I specifically almost proposed Babcock and decided against it some months ago for the reasons I've listed. Babcock murdered his wife to be with his current one, and they show every sign that they're a normal couple except murdering people. That's....honestly enough for me to vote against him, but I won't be upset or even mildly annoyed if he goes up, just giving my thoughts.
Finally, I've got a rewrite for one of my classic CM baddies here.....
- Witch & Wizard: The One Who Is The One is the brutal dictator of the New Order, and the ultimate evil in the story. Deciding all life was meant to cow before him after being shunned for his affinity of magic, The One established the New Order as his dictatorship, and quickly turned his new kingdom into a hellish realm for all the inhabitants, executing anyone who practices any form of magic or art to kick off his reign. Massacring and vivisecting men, women, and children by the hundreds for both experimentation and fun, The One simultaneously bombs and unleashes plagues onto civilian populations to wipe out any rebels against him. His own minions and son Pearce faring no better, The One sadistically executes those who fail him, has no concern for them getting caught in the crossfire of his plans, and abuses and eventually turns the latter into a vessel for his own soul. As the Arch-Enemy of the Allgood siblings, The One tortures and murders their friends and parents in front of them and torments them throughout the series. When his plan to "purge" the world of those unwilling to worship him fails, The One attempts to unleash the undead souls of his victims onto humanity to wipe it out then rule over the ashes that remain. A hypocritical note psychopath who hated everything that he wasn't in full control of, The One is one of the most wicked Young Adult Novel villains to have ever been conceived.
Edited by Ravok on Jul 19th 2018 at 2:01:48 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Lead Yokai and Hitotsumi
Ravok actually makes a good point. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Stewart.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Rewrite is MUCH better. Please add it to the Drafts (and speaking of YA CM entries needing condensing, is Leck's entry able to be trimmed?).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Fried, can you respond to that issue on Babcock?
V
Yes, Fried you might wanna make a counter-argument.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Thirded. I still think he's heinous enough, but I'm switching to abstain for now.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to the lead yokai and Hitotsumi. For Steward that sounds like an arguably sympathetic or at the minimum mitigating characteristic. Before I say no I would like to hear an attempted argument against it as well though.
Edited by Knack on Jul 19th 2018 at 11:31:03 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Here's. what I got.
- Marvel Fairy Tales:The Lead Yokai. is a sadistic. Yokai living in the forest. He would often trick a human into entering. the forest and then use his venom to turn them into a Yokai as well. To do this he would have them kill a loved one. When Izumi arrives to avenge his parents. death, the Lead Yokai mocks him about it and then effects him with venom. The Lead Yokai then kills Izumi's. uncle and kidnaps his aunt in order to have Izumi kill her. Even when beaten he tries to goad Izumi into killing him so as to take over his body.
Edited by Bullman on Jul 19th 2018 at 11:32:59 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Couple of things: According to this, it's the third issue, and the character's called "the Demon".
Edited by ACW on Jul 19th 2018 at 2:34:19 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
oh ok I'll change that.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
So uh where do we put him. On the Spiderman sub-page (Since its a version of Venom and a Spiderman story) or General Marvel.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I say the Spider-man one since he appeared in the Spider-man volume.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
If all it takes for people to flip flop on their votes is just one of the big-name posters disagreeing, then I'm done. I give up on Babcock, and while I'm at it? I'm relinquishing all the discussion dates I've reserved so whoever wants them can have them.
That's not flipping their votes, man. It's just someone saying there's a potential redeeming quality and asking for clarification.
I'm not flipping my vote, I'd just like to know some clarification.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 19th 2018 at 11:56:35 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Chill Fried, I'm not even flipping; just abstaining until further clarification.
And yeah, the Demon will go on the Spidey page, alternate continuities, after Saks.
Edited by ACW on Jul 19th 2018 at 3:04:02 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Same here, my post didn't say "I am changing my vote" which is why I was waiting for a good argument against what Ravok said and it has nothing to do with Ravok specifically either. It's important to be positive nobody missed anything mitigating is why.
Edited by Knack on Jul 19th 2018 at 12:02:36 PM
Yes to Yokai and Hitotsumi and Fried I’m going to be blunt, control your emotions. Do you have a response to Ravok’s (fair) argument?
Ok I got a weird one here
What's the work?
Marvel Fairy Tales is a series of one shots that put characters from the X-men, Spider-man, and the Avengers into the roles of ancient fairy tales. Today I'm. going to talk about the fourth issue of the Spider-man one's which puts them in a Japanese ghost story.
Who is the Lead Yokai?
First a little back story. Izumi (Peter) lives with his aunt and uncle after his parents were killed by the Yokai. The three guard the gate to a forest full of them. One night after a fight with his uncle, Izumi opens the gate to avenge his parents. It is there that we meet the Lead Yokai (Venom). The Lead Yokai precedes to mike Izumi about killing his parents. He then knocks him out while moking him about letting them lose.
The Lead Yokai then kills Izumi's uncle and kidnaps his aunt. He reveals that he's keeping her alive because he infected Izumi with his venom that is slowly turning him into a Yokai and him killing her will complete his transformation. He has done this to all of the other Yokai, at least three we see but we hear at least two others. When Izumi arrives he sends his minnion to distract him while the venom finishes. When Izumi mortally wounds him, the Lead Yokai tries to goad him into killing him so he can take over his body. However Izumi leaves him there for his minions to finish off.
Henious?
As the big bad he sets it. He a sadistic demon who turns people for the fun of it.
Other factors?
None he doesn't care about his minions.
Conclusion?
I say he's a keeper.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread