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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123701: Jul 13th 2018 at 3:07:53 AM

[tup]Garond and Jasper

Unsure on Austin.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 13th 2018 at 3:31:31 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#123702: Jul 13th 2018 at 3:23:50 AM

[tup] to Doctor Strickland, Anatoly Federov, Garond The Claw (Yeesh, okay I think he's set the new standard to be met by all evil hunters) and Jasper Kimbral.

I'm unsure on Austin.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#123703: Jul 13th 2018 at 3:46:03 AM

I'll try and trim the FNAF entry.

  • Five Nights at Freddy's: The Silver Eyes, The Twisted Ones, and The Fourth Closet: In these Alternate Continuity books based on the video game series, Dave/William Afton was the co-founder of both Fredbear's Family Diner and Freddy Fazbear's Pizza. Unable to deal with the stress in his life, he turned to the life of a Serial Killer to relieve it. Starting off by murdering the child of his business partner Henry, Afton later lured five kids backstage, killed them, and stuffed their bodies inside the animatronics, causing them to become possessed by their spirits. He then modifies the animatronics to lure children away from their parents in the hope of being able to kill even more children. While working as a security guard at a mall, he notices who he believes to be Henry's daughter Charlotte and her six friends, and decides to try and kill them For the Evulz. He kidnaps Charlotte's friend Carlton and places him in a springlock suit, gleefully telling him that if he makes one wrong move, the suit will slowly crush him to death and his spirit will be unable to pass on. He later kills an officer and takes Charlotte hostage when the group tries to escape. Returning as Springtrap, Afton sends out animatronics to kill Charlie and her friends out of revenge for causing his death. It's also revealed hat he reduced the animatronics to their endoskeletons and mashed them together, keeping all of the souls in excruciating agony.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jul 13th 2018 at 6:54:20 AM

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#123704: Jul 13th 2018 at 4:46:02 AM

I'm going to give Austin a [tup] because according to expanded universe stuff, Skynet was actually SCARED of the T-1000 because of how smart it was and the very real possibility it couldn't control it.

That and in the Sarah Conner Chronicles, we actually see a second T-1000 who's NOT evil, though certainly Anti Heroic. While she was sent back by John Conner, from what we see with the second T-800 model, reprogramming merely changes the prime directive, not really anything else. The second T-800 had to develop a unique personality distinct from the original rather than returning to the present with one.

The T-1001 DOES kill people but doesn't seem to be nearly as sadistic as the original T-1000 does and mainly only does so in interest of its ultimate goal, and is actively trying to create a benevolent AI to defeat Skynet.

So I'd say the second T-1000 acting much different than the first one kinda supports the idea that's the personality of the original rather than simply how they behave.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#123705: Jul 13th 2018 at 5:45:10 AM

Are both the expanded universe stuff and Chronicles in the same continuity as the films? Does Skynet then need to be re-evaluated (or is it more Pragmatic Villainy than actual standards?)?

Also, a condensed Malbarn:

  • Armageddon Force: Dr. Edgar Malbarn is an utterly psychotic sadist who Loves the Sound of Screaming. Malbarn is head of the Carvina Cooperation, an organization which takes wounded soldiers off of battlefields and conducts fiendish, torturous experiments on them, before brainwashing them and planning to use them to spread chaos across the world. Malbarn, aside from only using enough anesthesia to prevent Carvina victim Jon Heck from passing out, gets to work on Jon, replacing his blown-off arms with mechanical ones and planning to make Jon head of Malbarn's army, which Jon vehemently refuses to do. All the while, Malbarn taunts Jon, and lashes out when he gets angry, torturing him even beyond the experiments. Once Jon is rescued, he continues to have nightmares about Malbarn, as does fellow Carvina victim Yui Shinozaki, who Jon had freed while himself being rescued and who joins up with the group. Even after Jon kills Malbarn, these nightmares still haunt both of them.

Edited by ACW on Jul 13th 2018 at 9:07:54 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#123706: Jul 13th 2018 at 6:27:59 AM

I'm gonna abstain on "Austin" for now. Even with the Expanded Universe stuff in play, I'm sensing some Continuity Snarl here, especially given all the junk that happened in Genysis.

Edited by Tyk5919 on Jul 13th 2018 at 9:30:00 AM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123707: Jul 13th 2018 at 6:37:29 AM

I'll think on Austin, give me some time.As I can see it both ways for now.

[up]Ah Genysis,I really dont like that movie but I do like Matt Smith (My personal favourite of the doctors) in it.

James Cameroon is apparently going to ignore every movie but the first two for the new terminater movie from what Iv'e heard. It'll be set in its own timeline and turn the others into Alternate Universe 's, so the Continuity Snarl will probably get worse.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 13th 2018 at 6:44:35 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#123708: Jul 13th 2018 at 7:25:30 AM

AwesomeKid, please add the condensed writeup to the Drafts page (bobg, look okay to you? Anything need to be spoiled?).

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#123709: Jul 13th 2018 at 7:47:09 AM

As mentioned above The T1000 kills John's foster parents and later his dog because Evil Is Petty and later kills one of the asylum staff after showing off his powers, to gloat.

This isn't accurate. The T1000 kills the foster mom so it can take the form of her and lure John in, and kills the father so he wouldn't interfere. The dog only dies because the t800 uses a fake name for the dog and the T1000 kills it so it can check the collar and realizes it's been tricked.

Nay to the t1000. The expanded universe and novelizations are separate from the film and in the film, it's just a machine. An intelligent machine, but just a machine for Skynet doing nothing outside its parameters of "kill John Connor and anyone else in its way"...even torturing Sarah isn't out of petty sadism, but to force her to call out to John.

Skynet gets by only because it has revealed full sentience in later movies.

Yes to Jasper and Garond, though

Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 13th 2018 at 7:52:38 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#123710: Jul 13th 2018 at 7:54:10 AM

If that's the case, [tdown] to the T-1000, and then Skynet stays.

Although, if you wanna propose the version solely from the novelizations and/or expanded universe, feel free.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123711: Jul 13th 2018 at 7:54:44 AM

Actually yeah doesnt skynet chip and enslave his machines, so they dont go against him because he's that much of a Control Freak. I'm not sure the T-1000 could do anything outside his bosses pre-programmed orders.

[tdown]T-1000. Though like acw said, feel free to propse his expanded universe or book versions.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 13th 2018 at 7:56:08 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#123712: Jul 13th 2018 at 7:58:53 AM

[tdown] to the T-1000 and [tup] to keeping Skynet.

Saw The First Purge (the new one) last night and it was really good. PM me to discuss.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#123713: Jul 13th 2018 at 8:00:52 AM

Giving a [tdown] T-1000 as well.

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#123714: Jul 13th 2018 at 8:01:48 AM

[tup] the Marlo rewrite.

[tdown] T1000, as Lighty mentioned, it lacks moral agency

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#123715: Jul 13th 2018 at 8:10:04 AM

[tdown] T1000. The expanded universe version of the character might be worth taking a look at.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#123717: Jul 13th 2018 at 8:22:54 AM

The T-1000 does never do more than it is programmed to, but the way both it and the Terminator become more human in different ways is so incredibly fascinating. Salvation and Genisys definitely give Skynet way more agency. That timeline sure is gonna be a mess with the next one though.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#123718: Jul 13th 2018 at 9:27:30 AM

I guess since he's been approved and written up: Shall I request the images here (aside from the one already on the page) for Kulan Gath be added to the main image page?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#123719: Jul 13th 2018 at 9:43:00 AM

No to the 1000... for the exact reason it was declined last time.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#123720: Jul 13th 2018 at 11:05:29 AM

Eh....given what Lighty said, [tdown] T-1000.

@miraculous: I forgot I saw Genisys a week after I saw it. Pretty sure that says something about the film's quality.

James Cameroon is apparently going to ignore every movie but the first two for the new terminater movie from what Iv'e heard. It'll be set in its own timeline and turn the others into Alternate Universe 's, so the Continuity Snarl will probably get worse.
.

...So Terminator 6 is basically going the route Texas Chainsaw 3D went. God...I'm so fucking tired of soft reboots and remakes and Continuity Snarl. just bugs me

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#123721: Jul 13th 2018 at 11:26:56 AM

Hi guys.

Looks like I'm quite late for the Arrowverse discussion. So, after the high standard set by previous villains in the two past years, who ended up qualifying in the end ?

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#123722: Jul 13th 2018 at 11:31:08 AM

[up] Uhhhh, some corrupt businessman from Season 3 of Supergirl? Umm....what was his name...

[down] Yes, there we go. That guy. Couldn't remember his name for some reason.

Edited by Tyk5919 on Jul 13th 2018 at 2:35:41 PM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#123723: Jul 13th 2018 at 11:32:16 AM

Morgan Edge from Supergirl Season 3(whose write-up isn't in the drafts anymore but not up yet?).

Aside form that nobody.

If you want to count Black Lightning, due to also being aired on the CW (but not part of the verse) there is also Martin Proctor.

Edited by Forenperser on Jul 13th 2018 at 11:31:58 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#123724: Jul 13th 2018 at 11:35:03 AM

Forenperser: I moved it from the Drafts to my Word file; it's going with this week's batch.

I'll submit these tomorrow if nobody objects.

Edited by ACW on Jul 13th 2018 at 2:35:17 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123725: Jul 13th 2018 at 11:37:21 AM

[up][up][up][up]Morgan Edge from supergirl and James jessie from The Flash (2014) were the only new villains who were added to the arrowverse sub-page this year.

The only other villains who were added to Arrowverse this year other than them were a quartet from The Flash (1990)

Edited by miraculous on Jul 13th 2018 at 11:49:40 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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