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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#123276: Jul 7th 2018 at 2:07:55 PM

[tup]Valarr

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 7th 2018 at 12:07:42 PM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#123277: Jul 7th 2018 at 2:41:11 PM

[tup] Astronomer and Valarr, feels good to see another ASOIAF/GOT keeper. Place Leo after Minami but before Kusaka

  • Kamen Rider 555: Leo/Kamen Rider Psyga, from the alternate continuity Paradise Lost and its prequel Lost World, is the Lion Orphnoch and Muramaki's top henchman. An arrogant Blood Knight driven by a lust for power, Leo joined the Riotroopers solely to have a chance to kill humans and fight with other Orphnochs, considering battles to be "games". Leo was given the Psyga Gear after having found an extremely injured Murakami and demanding an Emperor Belt for himself, or else he would leave him to die. Leo leads the Riotroopers in the genocidal campaign against the human population, hunting down and massacring any humans that they can find. Introduced murdering three members of his own race with no hesitation, Leo gleefully participates in attacks against the Human Liberation Army at their sanctuary, personally killing Kusaka and leaving several civilians dead or injured, later taking the opportunity to bomb the place. Shortly after kidnapping Mari, Leo tried to stop Takumi from saving her, distracting him while she would be devoured by a monster.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 7th 2018 at 7:26:40 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#123278: Jul 7th 2018 at 2:41:50 PM

[tup] to Leo, The Astronomer and Ser Valarr Hill.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#123279: Jul 7th 2018 at 2:44:59 PM

[tup] Ser Valarr Hill. I wonder how he would act with Rorge given that both are the ASOIAF CM with the less amount of resources.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 7th 2018 at 4:46:47 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#123280: Jul 7th 2018 at 2:51:31 PM

Yea to Valarr, and the one from Wild Cards. Now, I got another show that I'm taking with a few other people...

What's the setting?

Quantum Leap was a classic sci-fi show back in the early 90s about time travel, specifically about the adventures of our protagonist Dr. Sam Beckett, played by Scott Bakula. Beckett is whisked out of his own body by the secret Quantum Leap project and spends his days surfing from life to life at various points of history, taking over people's bodies to change their lives for the better while they're sent to the "Waiting Room." Now, these people, known as "leapees," were generally made to answer questions and help Beckett on his way here while aided by Beckett's friend Al... however? Not all of the leapees were good people. Some of them, like in the season 5 episode "Killin' Time," were despicable. Case in point? Leon Randolph Stiles.

Who is Stiles? What has he done?

Stiles is a psychopath hick and illiterate Texan drifter raised in a series of foster homes. When Beckett opens his eyes in Stiles' body? He's in 1958... specifically, at the very end of Stiles' illustrious career as a serial killer. Stiles was active in the 50s, luring and brutally murdering prostitutes as Ziggy reports with eight victims to his name. Stiles was pursued by the police, and Stiles... murdered the daughter of the sheriff on his case simply because she got in his way, sending the sheriff into a vengeful crusade to kill Stiles in turn. When Beckett comes into his body, he's in a situation where Stiles took a mother and her young daughter hostage in their home with full willingness to kill both of them if the cops outside don't stand down.

Now, bigger problem is... Stiles himself, who's spirit is warped to the Waiting Room? Somehow manages to bring a gun with him and, in a confused panic, threatens to start mowing down the personnel as they confront him, coercing one of the other scientists to give him his car keys so Stiles can start exploring the new time period. Befuddled by the advanced nature of his surroundings, Stiles tries to pick his spree of serial murder right back up in the new world, attempting to murder a prostitute in a bloodthirsty fury when her fancy apartment perplexes Stiles further. When Al tracks him down? Stiles pumps him full of bullets (don't worry, he's wearing a bulletproof vest), terrorizes the prostitute, before deciding he wants to go back to his time period, coming back to the Quantum Leap project while attempting to murder everyone that gets in his way. Al thankfully manages to stick him with a tranquilizer and brings him back to the Waiting Room.

Beckett, who's proven his real identity to the mother Stiles was keeping hostage, is seemingly about to be shot by the cops which was Stiles' fate in the original timeline... thankfully, though, he and the hostage talk the sheriff out of killing Stiles and Beckett leaps again, with Stiles returned to his own time period and brought into custody.

Any mitigating factors?

None with Stiles himself. His background in foster homes isn't once portrayed as an excuse for his actions with him murdering women for seemingly no other reason than his own pleasure. He... does spare the prostitute he was initially going to kill in the future, but that's not particularly mitigating. Stiles, as a hick serial killer from the 50s transported into a world where the hookers suddenly own high-tech apartments? Is clearly in panic and confusion and wants to get home as quick as he can, sparing her only because he's focused entirely on something else... and still makes time to mockingly terrify her beforehand, so y'know?

The heinous standard? The nastiest in the show otherwise turns out to be Zoey, a major Arc Villain, but she's got way more resources and screentime. Among the one-shot baddies, Stiles is the heinous standard. There are a selection of murderers and rapists in Quantum Leap with one nasty warden who may keep on his own, but Stiles? Has the highest body count out of all of them, even the other serial killers in the show, with eight established as a pattern behind him and Stiles immediately trying to resume his spree in the future as well with plenty other attempted murder besides.

Conclusion?

I'd keep there.

Thoughts?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123283: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:02:31 PM

As somone w hoose also watched it. Easy [tup] to Stiles.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 7th 2018 at 3:04:08 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#123287: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:24:42 PM

[tup] Stiles and Vallarr

I think Vallar goes in the others section

[down] [tup] Cooley

Edited by G-Editor on Jul 7th 2018 at 12:36:05 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#123288: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:28:17 PM

Now, since Scrags got this one up, here's one more Quantum Leap villain.

The episode? Season 4's Unchained. This time? Sam leaps into Chance Terence Cole, at Talawaga prison on a brutal chain gang, nine months for petty theft. And the prison is run by the monstrous Boss Cooley.

Who is Boss Cooley?

Cooley is the corrupt prison guard who runs Talawaga, where prisons are beaten, brutalized and worked like slaves on the chain gang. And if they get out of line? Cooley will happily murder them. Thing is? Cole's cellmate, Jazz, is innocent, the real thief is out there. Cooley doesn't care, of course. All the same to him.

Upon their escape, Cooley throws them into the sweltering 'Punishment Pit' as a form of torture. Oh, and also? Cooley has a stake in the actual robberies. The real robber is the camp deliveryman Jake Wiles. We see constant evidence of Cooley's brutality in the gang, and finally, when Wiles is recognized? Cooley murders him. Cooley decides to deal with 'Cole' and Jazz in one of his favorite ways...in fact, Cooley has implemented 'cock fights' at the prison. What is it, you ask? Well...for fun, or to eliminate a problem, he has a little arena made in the swamp and prisoners are forced to fight. to the death. Jazz and Sam manage to form a distraction and escape. Cooley hunts them down with a search dog, planning on just murdering the both of them to cover things up, but Al, our holographic buddy, manages to agitate Cooley's dog, as only animals can see Al. Cooley loses control of the dog and loses his balance, falling off the bridge he's on and hitting his head on a rock below, killing him instantly. Sam goes on his next Leap soon, while Jazz and Cole escape and live happily ever after in different states.

Mitigating qualities?

ZERO by way of redeeming qualities. For heinousness, that's the only rub...but Cooley is a bit unique. We see the horrific conditions of the camp, inmates brutalized, punished by being put in the sweltering pit, and oh, yeah, the cock fights. We don't have an exact count on Cooley's victims, but we know he's been doing it a while and we see that pattern.

Conclusion?

You decide.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#123289: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:30:54 PM

I'm fine with just edging yes to Cooley, in the end... the cockfights give him a fairly unique edge in nastiness.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#123290: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:32:45 PM

Yes to Valarr, Stiles and Cooley.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123291: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:33:18 PM

[tup]cooley

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#123293: Jul 7th 2018 at 3:57:18 PM

[tup] to all the candidates I missed with the exception of Asmodeus.

Alright! I've got two things to say:

  • First, I finished Darling In The Fran XX...PM either me or sanfranman91 on who counts or not. This will be an interesting discussion in the future

  • Since this is already two weeks of Devil's Line finale. Here's my stance on it: I'm torn on this candidate...I was originally wanted to EP him but I decided not to. The main issue is that he seems to be leaning into Well-Intentioned Extremist category even if he has no friggin compunctions of throwing his allies like an already used tissue to the trash to further his plans and is a Sociopath to the highest degree....But still, I'm a little bit torn on this character mainly because there could be a wiggle room for him being a WIE so yeah...If you want me to EP this character, I would love to to clear some doubts but yeah. Also, I'll probably going to take a stab on the manga version. Since while it's like Tokyo Ghoul and Twilight met with each other, I felt that the manga is rather underappreciated or underrated at best so yeah :P

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 7th 2018 at 6:00:35 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#123294: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:04:29 PM

To finish my Sci Fi show queue now, at least until Scrags and I tackle First Wave...

My second Sliders post, from The Dream Masters...

In season 3, the Sliders emerge in a parallel San Francisco with...some issues. See, some years ago, a group of social outcasts rallied to a disgraced professor who was experimenting with drugs and dream therapy. Marked with a Pentagram symbol on their hands, they are the Dream Walkers and they rule with an iron fist...their every whim is catered to and the few who try to fight them die. To discuss the keepers...Gerald Thomas and Dr. Cardoza.

Who are they?

Gerald Thomas is the field leader of the Dream Walkers while Cardoza is the master.Now, Cardoza has fashioned a horrific dystopia ruled through fear and the symbol of the pentagram, having destroyed all who would oppose the Dream Walkers by either killing them, shattering their minds or putting them into comas. Of the Dream Walkers, Gerald is the most wantonly sadistic. In the opening scene a guy bumps into him on his bike by accident, recognizes Gerald and begsforgiveness. Gerald proceeds to destroy his mind, killing him with a broad, sadistic grin...something we find is completely routine when Gerald doesn't get his way.

Gerald then fixates on one of the Sliders, Wade....she isn't interested. Gerald...doesn't take being rejected well and begins haunting Wade's dreams with her worse fears, torturing her brutally. Cardoza sees it and isn't pleased Gerald is letting her get to him so much, ordering Wade's execution and to..redefine fear for everyone so nobody thinks the Dream Masters can be challenged. Gerald has Brown drugged so he can't stand guard over Wade and proceeds to torture her in her dreams horrifically, as he's done to many people before, intending on killing her. Now, the Sliders are met by a resistance fighters whose husband fought the Dream Masters....we see a hospital were a bunch of victims have been knocked into endless comas by them, as Professor Arturo, the leader of the Sliders, confers with the resistance head and comes to a realization: it's all a dream nd your mind makes it real....armed with the knowledge, they go into Wade's dream to face Gerald and his fellow Dream Masters. the Sliders face them down and defeat the Dream Masters, reversing Gerald's own attack and destroying him. With the main Dream Masters gone, their power is broken and the victims reawaken. Crdoza's fate isn't shown, but we're left to assume he'll be taken down with the latest victory.

Mitigating Qualities?

Now, heinousness? It's a BAD dystopia, where Gerald regularly kills and tortures people for the crime of...not dating him or bumping into him, and while he's vicious and sadistic, Cardoza is the one responsible and encourages a heavy amount of evil to control the populace. I'd say they pass here.

For redeeming features? Cardoza is cold and contemptuous of even his fellow Dream Masters, and Gerald? Honestly, he's a pathetic little worm under his bravado, whining for Cardoza's favor and going into self pity when Cardoza rebukes him. He's a social outcast who latched on to Cardoza for validation and worth, but he's so goddamn evil that he can't muster any sympathy. He's just a nobody trying to be a somebody, little of it played for anything but contempt and he's just concerned with using Cardoza as a means to find his worth, while wanting to eventually succeed him.

Conclusion?

Oh, I'd keep them.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123295: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:09:35 PM

[tup]dream masters duo.

Edited by miraculous on Jul 7th 2018 at 4:27:01 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#123296: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:20:21 PM

Yes to Astronomer, Valarr Hill, Stiles, Cooley and the Dream Master duo.

@Bullman, the Ultimate comics have a high heinous standard, Ultimate Wolverine is pretty sorry excuse for a hero and the villains are very nasty. I was proposed Ultimate Proteus, who likely killed up to 50,000 people, but he was deemed less heinous then Ultimate Magneto.

Also there are bunch of new Star Trek shows that may come out that could have monsters in them:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-a-next-generation-sequel-could-be-included-in-a-1826956945/amp

Some show where Picard is back, a Khan mini series, a Star Fleet Academy show (CW style Star Trek?) and a new Star Trek cartoon. I think the Star Trek cartoon series from the 70s had a close but no cigar character in terms of being a monster.

Speaking of 90s TV shows, does anyone remember the buddy cop show Due South? It featured a tough Chicago cop named Ray Vecchio teamed up with a polite Canadian mountie named Benton Fraser. Generally the crimes they foiled were pretty generic, but there are couple of episodes that featured a nasty pair of brothers, Randal and Francis Bolt. Randal being a more aggressive psychopath, while Francis is a cold calculating psychopath. Francis devises a plan to nuke Chicago, that is Randal enacts, but is thwarted by Vecchio and Fraser. Later Francis devises a scheme with their cousins to rescue Randal from his trial, but that also seems like a cover for a robbery of some bonds used as evidence in a case at that same court room, they also rig the judge and jury with explosives to prevent the cops from stopping them. I have doubts about Randal, because he was crying about an event in his childhood where Francis killed his pet dogs to make him tougher, so that might give him a redeeming quality.

I am not sure if Francis cares about his brother though, sure he rescued him, but the rescue operation is a cover for a robbery, Francis and Randal snipe and argue at each other and Francis asks Randal to handle a bag that might be rigged to explode (Vecchio and Fraser switched a bag with the bonds with a bag with the some of the bombs they rigged the court room with, so the brothers were unsure which bag it was). Francis does call his brother was genius and says it was mistake for Fraser to arrest him, but I am not sure if he is mad that his brother was arrested or that is plan was thwarted. Should I effort post either of these brothers?

Edited by Overlord on Jul 7th 2018 at 4:24:24 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#123297: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:24:54 PM

[tup] Stiles, Cooley and Dream Master duo

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#123298: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:25:31 PM

[tup] the Dream Masters.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 7th 2018 at 4:28:51 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#123299: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:27:36 PM

[tup] to Dream Master duo

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#123300: Jul 7th 2018 at 4:29:06 PM

@overlorx: Out of curiosity in the star trek cartoon who was the close but no cigar character to being a monster

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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