TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12226: Apr 27th 2013 at 5:03:04 AM

Agree to disagree alright. But good lord, Sword Of Truth seems...quite...interesting. So help me god I'm almost tempted to read them now.

EDIT: Anyway, back on topic: Carnage, Dormammu, Cavella and Rawlins? And does Shuma Gorath count?

edited 27th Apr '13 6:07:49 AM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#12227: Apr 27th 2013 at 10:37:32 AM

Shuma Gorath is so...alien and indecipherable. I don't believe so. It's like Marvel's answer to Yog-Sothoth

Give me a bit and I'll handle the other four

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#12229: Apr 27th 2013 at 3:26:50 PM

Speaking about Dormammu, does his sister Umar count too? Way I remember it she is also pretty nasty.

Or does she fail the heinous-standart in comparison to her brother?

edited 27th Apr '13 3:27:11 PM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12231: Apr 27th 2013 at 4:11:17 PM

On Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's, Placido is listed and I think he should be cut. He's just a piece of another villain, Aporia, who's VERY sympathetic and even gets Redemption Equals Death, and though Placido's definitely more unpleasant than his "real" self I still think he should go because he's not a "real" person, exactly.

edited 27th Apr '13 4:11:25 PM by HamburgerTime

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#12232: Apr 27th 2013 at 5:31:35 PM

Two questions:

First, there is still a Complete Monster example listed on Malcolm in the Middle. I can go ahead and cut that, right?

Also, wondered about this one on Rope:

First, I'm not really sure that the character is necessarily near the worst among Hitchcock villains (and his kill count is low as far as they go). More importantly, the film and the original play are inspired by the Leopold and Loeb case, and have the premise that Brandon and his partner are evil because they read too much Nietzsche.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#12233: Apr 27th 2013 at 5:43:06 PM

I'm not sure how any of that mitigates Brandon being nasty. Among Hitchcock villains, he's probably not the worst, but I think it can stand on its own. It's hard to get worse than, say, Uncle Charlie in Shadow Of A Doubt.

That reminds me though...the film Stoker has the example of Uncle Charlie listed

  • Complete Monster: Charlie
    • India is well on her way to becoming one by the film's conclusion

I've seen the film and he just needs expansion. Here's the deal:

The film is about a girl named India who just lost her father and has to live with her emotionally abusive mother when her father's younger brother, Uncle Charlie, shows up, claiming he's been missing due to traveling the world. Charlie seduces India's mother and begins slowly winning India over. In the film, his crimes include murdering the land lady when she gets in his way, murdering his aunt when she seems ready to warn India and her mother how dangerous Charlie really is, when he was younger, he buried his younger brother alive due to jealousy of the attention he got, murdered India's father...he kills a boy from school, but that one's not that bad as the boy was trying to rape India. He does try to murder India's mother.

Does he care for India? No, I can't say he does. He lusts after her and wants to shape her into a monster like him (he succeeds), but I can't say it's a redeeming trait whatsoever

edited 27th Apr '13 5:43:15 PM by Lightysnake

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#12234: Apr 27th 2013 at 5:46:12 PM

Sounds like a pretty good keep (I'd delete that sub-bullet about India though, unless she clearly counts- in which case, that should be expanded).

I also had in mind Hitchcock's Uncle Charlie as a worse example, as well as Bob Rusk of Frenzy who rapes and murders women (both have slightly more excuse than Brandon- Charlie was dropped on his head as a baby and Rusk has a smothering mother). Also, there's the villain in Strangers On A Train, who is similar to Brandon in committing murder purely for his own amusement (and he's likewise a Sissy Villain).

edited 27th Apr '13 5:51:14 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#12235: Apr 27th 2013 at 6:00:27 PM

Bruno from Strangers On A Train always came off as more pathetic than anything...I could never muster the hate towards him that I could towards Uncle Charlie or Rusk...actualy the 'real' villain of Vertigo seemed worse as well, though Rear Window had one who even verged towards sympathetic.

India...she's on her way towards it, don't get me wrong. The end of the film is her committing a murder herself, but she isn't there yet. She does spare her mother after Charlie's death.

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#12236: Apr 27th 2013 at 6:04:19 PM

I was also thinking that although he's really clever and charming about it, Tony Wendice of Dial M for Murder may actually be one of the worst too, since after his plan to have his wife murdered fails, he runs with it and frames her for murder and almost succeeds in having her executed.

Any way though, I don't really see Brandon as standing out, since nearly every Hitchcock film involves a murder or murders, and it seems pretty subjective to the individual troper what makes him worse than some of the other villains. Also, he arguably loves his "friend" Philip.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#12237: Apr 27th 2013 at 6:54:34 PM

YMMV.Bakugan luckily for us the entries are actually detailed and comprehensible.

  • Complete Monster: All the Big Bads have been this. Thankfully they all get their karmic payback in the end (so far)
    • Naga's scheme resolved around murdering his own sister to gain power and his actions result in the pointless deaths and/or Fate Worse than Death of a great many Bakugan. He also brainwashed at least two people to be his Dragons. He never once shows remorse. His thirst for power did him in when Drago and the other Guardian Bakugan feed him more power than he can absorb, causing him to explode.
    • Zenoheld's plan started out as enslaving a race for entertainment, then moved on to genocide, and finally to becoming an Omnicidal Maniac trying to destroy the entire universe. He ends up indirectly sending four members of the Vexus to oblivion, and he treats his son like a soldier who doesn't amount to anything else. His own ultimate weapon explodes with him still onboard, his son deciding to go with him to make sure the madman goes down with his ship.
    • Barodius started a war against a peaceful race simply for power and has no problem killing off or brainwashing his henchman at the drop of a hat. His Guardian Bakugan shares his personality. Ultimately manages to get what he wanted, but they can't handle the power and both get banished to another dimmension by Code Eve. He then becomes Mag Mel, see below.
    • Mag Mel hasn't even got the chance to show what he can really do but is already shaping up to be this. The reason he's Sealed Evil in a Can? Genocide. And now it's been revealed that his goal is to destroy the Earth. Plus the Mind Rape he's been putting Dan and Drago through. Does he need to Mind Rape them to siphon off their energy? No, he wants to and is enjoying every second of it. Later on, he criples a boy with total fear surrounded by his Chaos Bakugan so he can feed off his fear, knowing this leaves the Brawlesr with two, equally as horrific options. Either delete the area to destroy his Chaos Bakugan, killing an innocent person in the process, or let the Chaos Bakugan continue their rampage. Thank goodness Spectra pulled a Big Damn Heroes moment to stop it. Worse, Mag Mel laughs at this, throughly enjoying what he's doing. And when he was finally let out of his can, his first act was to attack Gundalia and try to burn it to the ground! Mag Mel is by far the most evil Bakugan villain to date due to his sheer sadism.
      • And then there's how he kills Mistress Sellon in an extremely cruel manner while she's begging him to spare her life. He does the exact same thing to Anubius one episode later, but for him it's even worse because it robs him the honor of dying in battle with Dan.
    • Coredegon, the evil Mechtogan who replaced Meg Mel. He and his allies evolved beyond needing their Bakugan creators. So what do they decide to do? Why destroy all Bakugan just because they can! They also have absolutely no qualms about obliterating scores of humans in the process and would've openned fire on the humans at the stadium if they hadn't been stopped.
      • Coredegon and his pals one up themselves by leveling Bakugan city. While only the Bakugan death count is mentioned, it's clear the act killed a massive amount of both Bakugan and humans. He then goes to New Vestoria and begins obliterating everyone in his path, including all the previous hero Bakugan. Thankfully, all this is undone via time travel, but still, the fact he's WILLING to do this is more than enough to qualify him!

  • Naga is a cut because he is not as heinous. Everyone after him is a universal threat.
  • Zenoheld is a keeper.
  • Baroduis(and Mag Mel by extension) is a keeper.
  • Coredegon's actions are depicted as being a part of a group, but I don't remember enough of this show to know he by himself is sufficient. For now I say cut.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#12238: Apr 27th 2013 at 10:22:51 PM

Cut India and expand on Uncle Charlie. Cut the Malcolm in the Middle Example.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#12239: Apr 27th 2013 at 10:49:35 PM

Skimming through some fan works pages.

Here's one from the Harry Potter fanfic Dark Secrets.

Complete Monster: Guess who.

Zero Context example.

Here's the Dirty Potter page in all it's glory.

Complete Monster: Winnie the Pooh in Dirty the Pooh most certainly qualifies, although of course he is a parody villain...

Only once part 3 rolls by, though. He is sweet and caring and all in the first two parts, but according to Word Of God, he sold his soul to Satan for honey and gay porn, which explains his sudden crossing of the Moral Event Horizon at faster-than-light speed. Arguably, Fuckbeak. Even Jim Dale himself, of all people, was bribed to keep quiet of Fuckbeak's alleged exploits. Peter Pan apparently gets his rocks off by lynching and beating black people, molesting infants, and laughing at dying children. He does feel remorse after shitting on Wendy, however, and decides think up something to do to apologize. Cue an Overly Long Gag listing a lot of disgusting stuff he could do. However, considering the general attitudes of the characters these monsters interact with, this seems to be an extreme example of Blue and Orange Morality.

(These ones are from a Dead Baby Comedy series and are all played for laughs).

Here`s one from Friendship is Betrayal, a Webcomic based off MLP.

Complete Monster: Princess Celestia and Pinkie Pie.

And another from Ask A Pony.

Complete Monster: Pinkamina.

The Master also deserves special mention, being responsible for several murders and at least one genocide. It's explicitly stated that his Anything That Moves behavior isn't for pleasure, he does it because he enjoys breaking people. If his use of a perception filter is anything to go by, he may even qualify as the pony equivalent of a Humanoid Abomination. Just in case you forgot what sort of animal The Master really is... ...A pony? Appelox from the Ask Japplejack blog was one of the Harmony Titans who created and protected Equestria, until he betrayed his siblings and ate them, something he practically brags about to Japplejack's face. His goal? To consumed all of existence. And he's played dead straight. Discord in the Discord Whooves Tumblrs. Discord Whooves has him discord the Doctor, causing him to beat Derpy and from what her flashbacks say nearly kill her, and the discordation looks like it's driving him mad. Then there's what he did in Zerum Whooves, where he Mind Raped the Doctor into killing Derpy, and now keeps him in a featureless void as a sex slave, with the Doctor (or Zerum as he now calls himself) thinking of himself as nothing worthy of mention.

And another from Pony Psychology!

Complete Monster: Screwball is a racist, violent psychopath trying to plunge the Ponyville into complete chaos.

Hoo boy. I don't know how I'm gonna be able to do every single one of these fanwork pages.

edited 27th Apr '13 10:51:23 PM by Klavice

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#12240: Apr 27th 2013 at 10:54:00 PM

"Sold his soul to Satan for honey and gay porn?" WHAAAAAAT!? There's no way that's not played for laughs, and it's also the greatest sentence I've seen all week.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#12241: Apr 28th 2013 at 3:43:02 AM

This is so.....argh!

Is it wrong that I really begin to hate this trope because of the much unnecessary work we have with it because of all the misuse?

Are people really THAT desperate to be able to call someone a CM with such pityful efforts? Why? Why the hell, I mean....is something not hip and cool when it doesn't have a CM?

edited 28th Apr '13 3:44:47 AM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12242: Apr 28th 2013 at 3:47:35 AM

Well, to be fair, I'm sure a lot of it was before the cleanup.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#12243: Apr 28th 2013 at 12:21:59 PM

Is it wrong that I really begin to hate this trope because of the much unnecessary work we have with it because of all the misuse?

Are people really THAT desperate to be able to call someone a CM with such pityful efforts? Why? Why the hell, I mean....is something not hip and cool when it doesn't have a CM?

Complete Monster is the new Magnificent Bastard. It's that simple.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#12244: Apr 28th 2013 at 1:12:52 PM

Also, gonna agree on Bakugan...keep Mag Mel/Barodius and Zeonheart. Cut the others

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#12245: Apr 28th 2013 at 1:20:18 PM

Rasputin is still on the anastasia ymmv page, should I cut him?

Also, Rourk from Atlantis was never added even though we all agreed on him.

Lastly, does anyone have any opinions on the stranger from when a stranger calls?

jjj
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#12246: Apr 28th 2013 at 1:38:31 PM

I fixed Voyd's writeup of Rourke some pages bacck, feel free to add that one.

If we agreed to cut Rasputin, cut him

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lophotrochozoa Since: May, 2012
#12248: Apr 28th 2013 at 2:30:44 PM

Should a link to Monster.Star Wars be added to the Film, Comic Books and Western Animation subpages?

edited 28th Apr '13 2:31:26 PM by Lophotrochozoa

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#12249: Apr 28th 2013 at 2:32:34 PM

[up] Hmm, maybe. Although we don't have a link to Disney in Western Animation.

Where is the Star Wars anyway?

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#12250: Apr 28th 2013 at 2:37:03 PM

Going to cut that Malcolm in the Middle example.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki

Total posts: 326,048
Top