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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#122228: Jun 26th 2018 at 7:28:47 PM

[tup] for Neos Gold.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#122229: Jun 26th 2018 at 7:40:30 PM

[tup] Neos Gold.

I was initially worried that I got banned, it took time before I got the memo that the page was changing. It was like "holy shit, how I gonna say goodbye, I need to do it".

Phew.

Watch me destroying my country
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#122230: Jun 26th 2018 at 8:16:38 PM

And [tup] to Neos (woah).

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 26th 2018 at 8:18:23 AM

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#122232: Jun 26th 2018 at 8:29:41 PM

So, is anyone familiar with False Memory, because I find the villain's write-up rather poorly-written.

  • Complete Monster: Dr. Mark Ahriman uses his status as a psychiatrist to mind rape his patients and use them however he sees fit. Some he sends to commit homicide and/or settle his personal vendettas, some he drives to creative suicide for his own entertainment and some he uses for other things. While most of his patients wind up "cured" (read: stripped of the phobia he himself planted in the first place), there's always a chance he'll decide they're more fun to destroy. If the patient is a pretty woman, she's probably screwed, in more ways than one. He gets away with it for twenty years before anyone properly catches him.

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#122233: Jun 26th 2018 at 9:44:30 PM

I'll give a look later at him. He keeps easily.

Btw, as a note? There will be, to my knowledge, no more The Librarian keeps. Dracula definitely doesn't count.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#122234: Jun 26th 2018 at 10:48:10 PM

Just added a new film to the discussion dates, which I figured I'd especially mention as I adore its title. The film is called The Man Who Killed Hitler and Then the Bigfoot.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#122235: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:21:43 AM

[tup] Neos Gold. Like mother like daughter it seems.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#122236: Jun 27th 2018 at 12:56:04 AM

(Wow this new layout is gonna take some getting used to)

Anyway, since everybody seemed fine when I previously brought up the idea of starting Incredibles 2 discussion a few days early due to travel, I'll kick it off now.

Nobody counts. There are only two characters who comitt evil out of their own free will. The Underminer, and the Big Bad, Evelyn Deavor.

Underminer doesn't come anywhere close to counting. He only shows up a for a few minutes in the beginning, and for all that talk about bringing an end to peace and happiness at the end of the first Incredibles movie, his entire plan is to rob a bank. Any near deaths of the handful of civilians was due to debris that was unintentional (though he probably wouldn't give a shit if people did die).

Evelyn I doubt is even as heinous as Syndrome (who himself was disqualified due to not being heinous enough). Most of her crimes such as nearly causing a train to crash, or an ambassador to be assassinated were intended to fail, and while she did try to crash a yacht into a city, that Yacht would probably only do minor damage. Her plan was to brainwash the heroes to make them do evil so that they wouldn't be legal again, not to cause major civilian harm.

Even if she was heinous enough, Evelyn cares about her family and is a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Her entire actions are motivated by how over-reliance on heroes led to her father getting killed by criminals and her mother dying of grief afterwards as a result. So she's trying to make sure heroes stay illegal so that civilians don't become too over-reliant on them, preventing things like that from occuring again. She also tried to get her brother Winston off the yacht that was about to crash in the city to get him out of danger despite Winston trying to make heroes legal again. (Though admittedly she didn't seem sad or worried when he ran back to the yacht to try and break the brainwashing)

And as I said, every other antagonist is only one due to brainwashing. So yeah, [tdown] to anybody from Incredibles 2.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:00:18 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#122237: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:39:51 AM

[tup]neos gold

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#122238: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:43:20 AM

Did this get enough votes?

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#122240: Jun 27th 2018 at 3:50:57 AM

[tup] Neos Gold. I agree that no one from Incredibles 2 comes close to vounting.

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#122241: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:51:50 AM

Holy shit, as of right now all the superhero movies that came out this year have had no C Ms. I only just noticed that.

Mind you, we had a lot of them last year come from superhero movies.

Anyway [tup] Neos Gold

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#122242: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:56:49 AM

[up] I don't mind that. As great as Ego was, and as good as Cate's performance was as Hela (from what I heard, Steppenwolf wasn't so good; Ludendorff was okay), I like the complex villains of Killmonger and Thanos (and while he's not heinous enough, Klaue's just damn funny). At any rate, it's so nice to see the Phase 3 villains be an asset to the films, instead of their only weak part (hi Ronan).

Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:03:22 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#122243: Jun 27th 2018 at 7:25:42 AM

Oh, and today is the final issue of Harrow County. I'll have an effortpost up in two weeks.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#122244: Jun 27th 2018 at 8:41:43 AM

@acw : Could you add Dorian to Lighty's to do list instead as I gave the write-up to him as I was having trouble writing him up concisely.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#122245: Jun 27th 2018 at 8:55:57 AM

[up] Done. Also, I ask again, did this character get enough votes?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#122246: Jun 27th 2018 at 9:15:20 AM

[up]I'll go check. Hold on a sec.

Edit: 8[tup], 5 abstain and 0 [tdown] for this entry. I think were good.

Edited by miraculous on Jun 27th 2018 at 9:21:58 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#122247: Jun 27th 2018 at 9:38:40 AM

Huh, didn't realize it was so much in favor. Alright, cool. And thanks smile

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#122248: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:02:49 AM

Someone added unauthorized edits to Tienbo's entry on the films YMMV page.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#122249: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:10:50 AM

I'd wish they'd come here, but honestly? Aside from the Moral Event Horizon pothole, and maybe the last sentence, the changes are actually not too bad:

When Junbao refuses, Tienbo nearly kills the former before escaping leaving Junbao emotionally shattered.

In an effort to find and kill Junbao, Tienbo threatens the local populace with violence, killing an innocent girl and her mother in the process. When the father of the girl calls him a murdering dog, Tienbo stoically proclaims the former is right about him before having the man dragged to death.

Clown-Face, looks like you did the original entry, so I'll leave the final decision up to you, but I'm...actually not opposed to those 2 changes. Killing the dude's friend (or whatever Siu Lin is) and especially killing a child? Worth mentioning, IMHO. I can see if there's some way to include those without making the entry super-long, if you give your okay.

Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:17:33 PM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#122250: Jun 27th 2018 at 11:28:25 AM

Eh....my only issue is that the entry is a bit too large. Maybe 43 can trim it down a bit.

Why so serious?

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