During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Neos
Neos Gold.
I was initially worried that I got banned, it took time before I got the memo that the page was changing. It was like "holy shit, how I gonna say goodbye, I need to do it".
Phew.
Watch me destroying my countrySo, is anyone familiar with False Memory, because I find the villain's write-up rather poorly-written.
- Complete Monster: Dr. Mark Ahriman uses his status as a psychiatrist to mind rape his patients and use them however he sees fit. Some he sends to commit homicide and/or settle his personal vendettas, some he drives to creative suicide for his own entertainment and some he uses for other things. While most of his patients wind up "cured" (read: stripped of the phobia he himself planted in the first place), there's always a chance he'll decide they're more fun to destroy. If the patient is a pretty woman, she's probably screwed, in more ways than one. He gets away with it for twenty years before anyone properly catches him.
(Wow this new layout is gonna take some getting used to)
Anyway, since everybody seemed fine when I previously brought up the idea of starting Incredibles 2 discussion a few days early due to travel, I'll kick it off now.
Nobody counts. There are only two characters who comitt evil out of their own free will. The Underminer, and the Big Bad, Evelyn Deavor.
Underminer doesn't come anywhere close to counting. He only shows up a for a few minutes in the beginning, and for all that talk about bringing an end to peace and happiness at the end of the first Incredibles movie, his entire plan is to rob a bank. Any near deaths of the handful of civilians was due to debris that was unintentional (though he probably wouldn't give a shit if people did die).
Evelyn I doubt is even as heinous as Syndrome (who himself was disqualified due to not being heinous enough). Most of her crimes such as nearly causing a train to crash, or an ambassador to be assassinated were intended to fail, and while she did try to crash a yacht into a city, that Yacht would probably only do minor damage. Her plan was to brainwash the heroes to make them do evil so that they wouldn't be legal again, not to cause major civilian harm.
Even if she was heinous enough, Evelyn cares about her family and is a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Her entire actions are motivated by how over-reliance on heroes led to her father getting killed by criminals and her mother dying of grief afterwards as a result. So she's trying to make sure heroes stay illegal so that civilians don't become too over-reliant on them, preventing things like that from occuring again. She also tried to get her brother Winston off the yacht that was about to crash in the city to get him out of danger despite Winston trying to make heroes legal again. (Though admittedly she didn't seem sad or worried when he ran back to the yacht to try and break the brainwashing)
And as I said, every other antagonist is only one due to brainwashing. So yeah,
to anybody from Incredibles 2.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:00:18 AM
Did this get enough votes?
- "Fear Garden
" by Rin Kagamine: The killer (portrayed by Rin) is a psychotic and vile teenage trickster who obsesses over human hands. She will act friendly and chipper while in public or at school, but will proceed to stalk her "friends" until she can get them alone, and will then proceed to use a knife to torture her victims, eventually using the knife and her own strength to rip their arms off of their bodies, then finish the victims off by continually stabbing them even after they die. She will then plant the arms with their hands out in her garden and flowerpots, decorating them and rearranging them. She muses about her malevolent actions and even flashes back to her first victim, her own twin brother, who she killed and hid in a closet.
Holy shit, as of right now all the superhero movies that came out this year have had no C Ms. I only just noticed that.
Mind you, we had a lot of them last year come from superhero movies.
Anyway
Neos Gold
I don't mind that. As great as Ego was, and as good as Cate's performance was as Hela (from what I heard, Steppenwolf wasn't so good; Ludendorff was okay), I like the complex villains of Killmonger and Thanos (and while he's not heinous enough, Klaue's just damn funny). At any rate, it's so nice to see the Phase 3 villains be an asset to the films, instead of their only weak part (hi Ronan).
Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2018 at 10:03:22 AM
Done. Also, I ask again, did this character get enough votes?
- "Fear Garden
" by Rin Kagamine: The killer (portrayed by Rin) is a psychotic and vile teenage trickster who obsesses over human hands. She will act friendly and chipper while in public or at school, but will proceed to stalk her "friends" until she can get them alone, and will then proceed to use a knife to torture her victims, eventually using the knife and her own strength to rip their arms off of their bodies, then finish the victims off by continually stabbing them even after they die. She will then plant the arms with their hands out in her garden and flowerpots, decorating them and rearranging them. She muses about her malevolent actions and even flashes back to her first victim, her own twin brother, who she killed and hid in a closet.
Someone added unauthorized edits to Tienbo's entry on the films YMMV page.
- Complete Monster: Tienbo is Junbao's former best-friend turned enemy. Growing up with Junbao in a Shaolin Temple as a student in the martial arts, the two were expelled after Tienbo nearly killed a fellow student for cheating during a fight. Tienbo joins a rebellion against the corrupt military and its brutal governor, but becomes fascinated by the power the governor possesses. Seeking to join the military, Tienbo betrays Junbao and the rebellion, leading to them being massacred by the governor's army. He proceeds to murder Miss Li after she rejects his advances before using Siu Lin as bait to lure Junbao into recruitment in the military. When Junbao refuses, Tienbo nearly kills the former before escaping leaving Junbao emotionally shattered. Being promoted to general, Tienbo puts his soldiers through brutal training, resulting in several getting killed by his harsh methods. In an effort to find and kill Junbao, Tienbo threatens the local populace with violence, killing an innocent girl and her mother in the process. When the father of the girl calls him a murdering dog, Tienbo stoically proclaims the former is right about him before having the man dragged to death. When Junbao and Siu Lin take the governor hostage, Tienbo kills him in order to take control of the military. He finally pleads for mercy from Junbao before making a final attempt to kill him when he lets his guard down. Corrupt, brutal, and power hungry Tienbo stops at nothing to fulfill his ambitions.
I'd wish they'd come here, but honestly? Aside from the Moral Event Horizon pothole, and maybe the last sentence, the changes are actually not too bad:
Clown-Face, looks like you did the original entry, so I'll leave the final decision up to you, but I'm...actually not opposed to those 2 changes. Killing the dude's friend (or whatever Siu Lin is) and especially killing a child? Worth mentioning, IMHO. I can see if there's some way to include those without making the entry super-long, if you give your okay.
Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2018 at 2:17:33 PM
