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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#121851: Jun 22nd 2018 at 8:22:37 AM

That's what's going on, yeah.

Since Hakeswill appears in two episodes, should he be divided into the separate sections for each? Or leave it as is?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#121852: Jun 22nd 2018 at 8:29:29 AM

My view (though this has caused a bit of consternation)? Keep the entry as is on the main YMMV page; I took care of the YMMV pages for the episodes.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121853: Jun 22nd 2018 at 8:32:04 AM

Ooh are we making a page for hellraiser. Than how about this pic of julia cotton ripping out frank cotton's heart.

pic 1 and pic 2

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#121854: Jun 22nd 2018 at 8:41:23 AM

Yes to Rachel, whose movie couldn’t hold a candle to the original lol

No to Ake

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#121855: Jun 22nd 2018 at 8:46:19 AM

Yea on Rachel, Abstain on Ake

edited 22nd Jun '18 8:46:51 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#121856: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:03:43 AM

My only concern with that image (and it's NOT that Frank is a CM himself) is that it's probably too graphic.

And yes, I realize the image at Literature is also graphic, but that's more of a drawing (and honestly, I'm somewhat surprised that was allowed).

edited 22nd Jun '18 9:04:56 AM by ACW

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#121857: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:14:15 AM

Could anyone respond to what I said previously about Åke? That this is a separate continuity? Otherwise, it just comes across as someone downvoting for the sake of downvoting, and we call that trolling. I'd rather know about if the mitigating factors are enough to disqualify him, or something, just not downvoting for no reason.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#121858: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:15:04 AM

I'm just going to lean a tentative yea on Ake at this point

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#121859: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:24:43 AM

Regarding Ake. What exactly is the heinous standard like of this continuity? Saying he's simply more personal than other villains doesn't present a clear understanding of how it is like.

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#121860: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:28:08 AM

[up] https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=4857

(Check heinousness. And as for being more personal, the fact that he kills Wallander's best friend Svedberg I'd say is personal).

edited 22nd Jun '18 9:28:52 AM by MenInGreyToBlak

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#121861: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:30:58 AM

[up]how many victims does he have ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#121862: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:32:22 AM

[up] 9 Attempted. (Unnamed man, Svedberg, Three girls, Photographer, Married Couple, Linda Wallander).

edited 22nd Jun '18 9:35:03 AM by MenInGreyToBlak

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#121863: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:36:10 AM

Hmm, he seems heinous enough, but that one potential mitigating quality makes me hesitate.

MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
V
#121864: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:37:20 AM

[up] As I said, watch the video link I sent and judge.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#121865: Jun 22nd 2018 at 9:47:46 AM

Alright,now that I know that this is a different series and have a better understanding of the heinous standard, I'll give a slight yes to Ake.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#121866: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:09:48 AM

Staying with no and accusing people of trolling who have provided actual contributions to the thread because they didn’t include acknowledgement to a post you made isn’t kosher.

AFreakyDude Since: Jul, 2015
#121867: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:17:25 AM

Have King Paimon or Joan from Hereditary been discussed yet?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#121868: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:19:29 AM

[up] if you feel like EP her then go ahead

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#121869: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:24:38 AM

Giving a [tup] to Sin and abstaining on Ake, welcome back Ravok!

Some quotes for the Hellraiser Monster page.

Hellraiser 1:

Kirsty Cotton: This isn't happening.
Frank Cotton: I used to tell myself that. Used to try and pretend I was dreaming all the pain. But don't you kid yourself. Some things have to be endured. And that's what makes the pleasures so sweet!

Hellraiser 2:

"Kirsty... you have surprisingly good taste in men. They didn't tell you, did they? They've changed the rules of the fairy tale. I'm no longer just the wicked stepmother. Now I'm the evil queen." - Julia Cotton, after having killed Kirsty's Love Interest.

Hellraiser 7/Deader:

Amy Klein: I know what i saw in that room was real. It was real, like this flesh.
Winter LeMarchand: You think this is real? This flesh, this blood... no. You think this thing is a presence? In all essential qualities it is less than nothing. In all essential qualities we are less than nothing. Not solid, not here, not real.

edited 22nd Jun '18 10:30:31 AM by TheMadCr0w

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#121870: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:28:30 AM

Don't think any of those fit, TBQH.

As for Hereditary? I don't think anyone counts.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#121871: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:32:27 AM

I'd have to agree with the notion that no one counts from the film as well.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#121872: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:36:53 AM

I kinda agree with Lighty on the quotes, though the second may work if npthing better comes up.

Anyone got any ideas for the header or an image (I like Mir's idea, but I think it's too graphic; anything from the comics?)?

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#121873: Jun 22nd 2018 at 10:48:06 AM

@121846 Only one thing: the quote at the end of Hakeswill’s entry on the recap YMMV page got cut off.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#121875: Jun 22nd 2018 at 11:07:06 AM

[up][up][up] We're talking about Hellraiser, safe to say everything is going to be graphic [lol]


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