During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Judd Faust.
Fookin Legend, Deville and Faust.
Is there any villain whom you didn't considered CM at first?
For me it's Torquemada from Assassins Creed. Now, i must admit that i never played Discovery, but while i was watching of the movie he never seemed to me to be CM.
Yes to Faust.
@ ACW, Please change that so it just says something like "Satan returns see [original game's YMMV page] for details" with a link to the page that has his actual entry. It looks bad as is.
@ Joseph, Not sure what these works are you keep asking people to look into but if you're interested, why don't you take stabs at them?
@ Miraculous, Do not turn off autocorrect, I want more lulz names from your phone.
edited 6th Jun '18 4:03:53 PM by 43110
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Well all right I could do it if you insist.
I might not do it right away though.
edited 6th Jun '18 4:12:07 PM by MasterJoseph
IPP Wick Check created.
Faust.
@hegel I assume you mean villains you didn't consider were C Ms until you saw them listed. In that case, for me, it would be Koba, Sabretooth, and you're not gonna believe it, but The Joker.
Why so serious?![]()
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When I proposed Irving, I was extremely sceptical, and then for some reason no one even asked about anything.
edited 6th Jun '18 4:21:02 PM by MenInGreyToBlak
Some of these old shows are interesting, they combine comic book villains (who can work on a TV budget) with original villains.
I think budget was the reason we never saw Brainiac in Adventures of Superboy or Lois & Clark and I love Brainiac, but its fun to talk about other monstrous villains in a Superman related franchise. I think its fun to talk about old favorites like Brainiac and other more obscure villains.
edited 6th Jun '18 6:11:51 PM by Overlord
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As far as some of the original villains went? Tempus is standing out as one of my favorites for this year.
By the way, very small expansion to Modula... apparently I forgot to mention Ilana in the entry and I have a bit of other touch-ups as well.
- Sym-Bionic Titan:
- General Modula is a cold, cruel man responsible for all the misery within the series. A treacherous man who once served proudly under the Galalunan Kingdom before being mistakenly thought dead by the King, Modula lets his cruelty consume him, allying with the monstrous Mutraddi and launching an invasion on Galaluna that leads to countless innocent people killed and the rest enslaved, with Modula murdering many of the rebels himself. Intent on utterly breaking the will of the Galalunan people by killing Princess Ilana, Modula sends the Mutraddi to wreak swaths of havoc and death on Earth to kill her, even using a living bomb called Tashy 497 to potentially decimate the entire planet to get at her—vaporizing his own minion once he fails to do his job and threatening his successor with the same fate should he fail him. A man who has long abandoned any honorable traits he may have had, Modula is a walking nightmare worse than even the literal monsters he rules over.
edited 6th Jun '18 6:35:31 PM by Scraggle
Alrighty, Jackie and I have a new collaboration!
The work? Kotetsu Jeeg, or 'Steel Jeeg', an old anime based on a manga by Go Nagai. The hero is Hiroshi Shiba, a motorcycle racer ina fatal accident. His genius father reconstructs him as a cyborg....and with a few modifcations, he can form a giant robot called Steel Jeeg, which comes in handy....as there's evil afoot!
Far below the earth, an evil, ancient civilization is stirring. The Jamatai Kingdom, a demonic empire defeated and driven underground by humanity long ago, led by the monstrous Queen Himika. And now? They're bad, with only Jeeg to stop them. So, let's talk the Big Bad from the manga: Queen Himika.
who is Himika?
Upon her revival, Himika sets about to reestablish the Jamatai kingdom and conquer Japan. Immediately, she sends an assassin to murder the few scholars who know of the Jamatai kingdom....one being Hiroshi's father. The first attack claims a number of lives, which Jeeg avenges...earning Himika's enmity.
Now, the manga is...pretty damn gory and dark by super robot standards. It's short, but in the pagetime? In chapter 2, Himika reveals her ultimate goal is the genocide of humanity, whereupon she revives her floating fortress, the Yamata No Orochi, giving her forces orders of "Massacre the human scum! Demolish everything!" Himika sends her top generals to massacre everything and turn Tokyo into a 'sea of blood,' led by another candidate Jackie will be handling.
Himika proceeds to order or authorize plans and attacks with mass civilian casualties, even having them target children with attempts to massacre them to draw Jeeg out. After multiple failures by her henchmen, she loses it and begins massacring them herself...only one of her men convinces her to spare the others, whereupon she sends them to slaughter civilians in Tokyo, with the surviving soldiers being turned into living bombs.
In the final chapters, it's revealed there's another enemy from space who once stole earth from the Jamatai...said being is revealed as Ryuma, the Dragon Emperor, a powerful interdimensional space-being. Himika takes the reins to speed up conquest, mind raping and mentally dominating numerous military installations and has them 'take up arms and slaughter the filthy humans!' Using them as bait to draw Jeeg out before killing the brainwashed soldiers herself. Himika prepares to massacre everyone in Japan in one strike...only for Emperor Ryuma to swoop him and take rhe reins as big bad, turning Himika into his own minion and sending her to fight Jeeg. In that fight, Jeeg deals her a mortal wound, only recognizing her as Himika as she dies. The manga ends with Jeeg and Ryuma facing off, Jeeg swearing to defeat the new anime.....
Yeah, typical Go Nagai ending.
Heinous Standard?
Worst in story. Ryuma doesn't get a chance to, well, DO anything save usurp her, and her men, while....really bad, act only on her orders, with her being responsible for tons and tons of death, evil and attempted genocide. Easy pass.
Mitigating qualities?
Zero. Himika is an egomaniac who things nothing of her own soldiers, flat out mocking them and slaughtering them when convenient herself. She's a mass of rage and brutality, with not a hint of a redeeming quality in sight.
conclusion?
One of the more vile super robot big bads and an easy keeper.
And
to Himika. Now for the other manga candidate.
Who Is he?
Ikima is one of three henchmen who serve Queen Himika, and the worst of the bunch.
What has he done?
The story starts with him, Amaso, and Mimashi awaking Himika from her millennia-long slumber, participating in her conquest to exterminate mankind and rebuild her kingdom. Under orders from Himika, he kills everyone who is aware of the secrets of the Jamatai Kingdom, such as an archeologist, even having one of his men rip the dude’s head off, watching with glee as it plops to the floor. Searching for Professor Shiba Kiri-jiro, he later finds the good doctor along with his son Hiroshi, and has his men gun down both Hiroshi (a teenager) and his father, killing the former, with the latter barely surviving. He often leads Himika’s army and Haniwa Phantoms (giant robots) to destroy various cities, ordering his men to kill Steel Jeeg whenever he and his crew show up to save the day.
He at one point gives scientists a stone that ends up turning into a Phantom, killing them all. When Jeeg destroys the Phantom, Ikima furiously orders two more Haniwa Phantoms to kill Jeeg and bring him his head. He has a Phantom shoot down Micchi’s Big Shooter jet plane, meaning that Jeeg can’t combine to form the giant mecha; though she makes it out when she switches to auto pilot, and the day is saved.
Piloting Himika’s Phantasm Fortress (Yamata-No-Orochi), Ikima gleefully rains destruction down onto Tokyo, hoping to make a Hell out of the city; we see loads of people getting burned to death by the Fortress, with a textbox even saying that “Tokyo was transformed into a sea of blood”. He sends out Phantom Yomaso to stop Jeeg, and escapes after Yomaso is destroyed by Jeeg’s new mach drill powers. Ikima later has a dog befriend the child Mayumi, having it lure all dogs within the area toward the Build Base; this allows Ikima to find Hiroshi's headquarters and launch a surprise nighttime attack. The dogs themselves turn ravenous, breaking into the house and attempting to kill everyone inside, including Mayumi and Hiroshi’s mom.
3 Chapters later, he invades the Build Base again and has his men kidnap Micchi and the Big Shooter, sending out Haniwa Phantom Giraru to distract Hiroshi and lay waste to the city. Luckily Micchi and her Big Shooter make an escape. 2 Chapters later, he is forced to work with Amaso, thinking that he’s trying to draw all of Himika’s good favor to himself, and is forced to partake in Amaso’s plan, which involves sending troops to slaughter a whole town (which all takes place offscreen of course). Ikima encounters two children and lets them live, but only so that when he kills Hiroshi, the kids can tell Amaso (who’s trying to attack Build Base) what he did. While fighting Jeeg as a distraction for when his base is being bombed, he lets him get away, knowing that the blame will be pinned on Amaso, since it was his plan to begin with.
When a meteorite carrying Emperor Ryuma’s servant lands on Earth, he and the others are sent by Himika to stop the servant that was the one responsible for her long nap. When Jeeg’s struggling with the servant, Ikima sends a Phantom to kill the servant, only doing so because he's afraid that the servant will take himself and everyone else all down. With Mimashi dying, he and Amaso are sent to destroy Kyushu in order to rebuild Himika’s kingdom while she kills Hiroshi herself, knowing that Ryuma will soon come to Earth and destroy everything. Ikima captures some humans and brainwashes them into becoming Haniwa soldiers, hoping to convert everyone in Japan. When Himika shows up and orders Amaso to kill Jeeg, Ikima forbids it, saying that it’d be better to just establish her kingdom in Kyushu now and wait until later to kill him; he even has a pouty face when Himika goes against his wishes. He is then captured by Ryuma, along with all the other villains, and is last scene floating in a bubble.
Redeeming Qualities?
Nada. Every nice act is just him being pragmatic.
Heinousness?
He’s one of Himika’s three henchmen, but has the biggest body count. Amaso, despite attempting to kill children at one point, doesn’t have as high of an onscreen body count as Ikima, and is shown to admit respect for Hiroshi at some points. As for Mimashi, he only shows up twice, and can’t compare to the two. While he’s taking orders from Himika, he’s shown to relish in his misdeeds, and even shows jealousy at one point towards Amaso for getting more attention from Himika, the only one of the trio to ever have those kinds of feelings.
Conclusion
I think he’s a keeper. Expect another Steel Jeeg candidate tomorrow, along with another one from a movie with some relation to the Jeeg franchise.
edited 6th Jun '18 7:06:25 PM by therealjackieboy
It's Spooky Month!
Queen Himika.
Ikima (really different names, right?)
By the way, I'm gonna reserve Cybersix An Italian-Argentinean comic book.
edited 6th Jun '18 7:58:39 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
