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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#119976: Jun 3rd 2018 at 4:05:06 AM

[tdown]louis

[tup]Doctor

Also build has been reserved by me and crow who will do the ep's on namba and evolt when the time comes.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#119977: Jun 3rd 2018 at 4:13:23 AM

So, Myers is a cut, Doctor's a keep; Lloyd from Designated Survivor's a cut?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#119978: Jun 3rd 2018 at 4:29:46 AM

[up] Yes, Doctor is a keep and Myers and Lloyd is a cut

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#119979: Jun 3rd 2018 at 4:35:04 AM

I've got one absolutely vile character coming up.

What's the Work?

The Swiitch. an Anthony Horowitz book from the 90s. To put it simply it's a body swap story of a rich kid (named Tad) who is spoilt rotten and a poor kid (named Bob) who steals for a living. Tad, in the poor kid's body, is taken away to a home for troubled children run by his father (the place is not-at-all suspiciously named ACID), who is the topic of this effortpost.

Who is Hubert Spencer and what does he do?

While initially seeming to me to be a benevolent billionaire who produces products such as shampoo and vitamins in a store chain (it is proclaimed they are never tested on animals), he turns out to be a much, much more evil man than he lets on. When Tad is taken to an ACID facility, he sees how the products are truly tested: on the hundreds of homeless children the charity takes off the streets. Hubert was using them as lab rats for his products, testing them on their eyes, their nails, anwyhere on the children's bodies, not caring about the harm that comes their way.

That's only one of two atrocities the guy commits, though. In a flashback, a tribe of Indians (named the Arambayans) had been growing a specific fruit that Hubert thought he could profit off of and make money. But the Arambayans did not trust him, and he supplied their neighboring tribe, who they were not on good terms with, with automatic rifles and weaponry. Only a few of them escaped alive. Basically he committed genocide on a race because they wouldn't sell him a fruit. Talk about Disproportionate Retribution. Of course he attempts to murder the protagonist, but that's considered standard here.

Mitigating Qualities

He never shows care for his son, to be honest the relationship is too vague to make anything of it. Him trying to murder Tad in the other boy's body, and the hundreds of experiments on kids, is pretty indicative of what he thinks of children anyway. If he did find out, which he never does, that the boy was Tad (he doesn't believe him when he says), he wouldn't care at all. His relationship with his wife is also quite vague, the most we see is when she cries about when he threatens to murder Tad in Bob's body and he ignores her.

One other thing is that he doesn't commit any of the atrocities himself, the genocide and experiments were all caused by him on orders but not done by him. But that's why I asked that question earlier, and from what Lighty said there I can say the blame is certainly on him. I was thinking of effortposting some of the subordinate such as Spurling, the lad who he orders to give the guns to the enemies of the Arambayans (what a mouthful), but I feel he doesn't stand out enough.

Heinous Standard

Sets it, Big Bad, is by far the most evil character. Yes, these are portrayed explicitly terribly and are not glossed over, everything is described fully in how it plays out. It is not too vague or Fridge Horror-y.

Verdict?

Well yeah, [tup] I didn't expect such a dark antagonist in this so called "young fiction" book... he is at a young adult book level of evil.

There is one other villain in this I can see counting, but he's portrayed in a really... bizarre way, very slightly sort of sympathetic in death but also incredibly evil. He is on the other end of villain from Hubert which is even pointed out in the book. I'll wait and see on that.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#119980: Jun 3rd 2018 at 4:40:04 AM

Think I'll say yea to Humbert.

Btw, just want to remind you guys about something. Despite I havent read the book. May I reserve the upcoming film called Mortal Engines? (It is based on Peter Jackson's book btw) Think I'm interested with that

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#119982: Jun 3rd 2018 at 5:04:05 AM

[tup]spencer

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MenInGreyToBlak V Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#119984: Jun 3rd 2018 at 5:26:18 AM

Complete Monster:In the crystal falls AU where homeworld and earth switch places, Bill Cipher here having long conquered earth but do to being restricted there uses the humans to cause suffering through out the Universe Becoming a sadistic despot. He has his soldiers capture Dipper Pines and has them torture and eventually downright mutilate the child for years on end. Then once Dipper finally got reunited with his family Bill manipulated the boys resentment at his family for not searching for him to trick him into a deal. That universes version of Bill Cipher is just as bad as his main counterpart and a truly horrific monstrous tyrant.

I'm suspended from editing so could someone add this for me? To avoid any confusion crystal falls is an AU. for Universe Falls. For those wondering why it would be on the main works page the Aus are considered "Official" to the main work

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#119985: Jun 3rd 2018 at 5:36:19 AM

[up]I'll add it to the drafts for you.

Also I'll give a late yeah to fanfci Bill and he is one of my favourite CM's.

edited 3rd Jun '18 5:36:43 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#119986: Jun 3rd 2018 at 5:50:39 AM

[up][up]Looks OK. Correct some mistakes and then add it to the drafts.

Also, [tup] to Spencer. Wow, what a monster.

edited 3rd Jun '18 5:50:50 AM by DukeNukem4ever

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#119987: Jun 3rd 2018 at 6:10:30 AM

Duke, are you gonna edit Bertruger's entry?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#119988: Jun 3rd 2018 at 6:49:24 AM

[tup] Hubert Spencer

And trust me, those Young Fictionbooks can have surprisingly dark villains.

edited 3rd Jun '18 6:49:52 AM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#119989: Jun 3rd 2018 at 7:10:11 AM

[tup] Spencer. I'll also vote to cut all the Dead by Daylight characters including the Doctor even though it seems like he'll stay anyway. I really have to agree with Scraggle that his actions don't stand out when all the killers torture or brutalize their victims.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#119990: Jun 3rd 2018 at 7:11:32 AM

@ Fried Take as much time as you need. Any chance for a Proctor write-up though? xP

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Knack Since: Mar, 2018
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#119993: Jun 3rd 2018 at 7:17:09 AM

I will do Bertruger's entry a bit later, I am currently busy.

edited 3rd Jun '18 7:17:20 AM by DukeNukem4ever

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#119994: Jun 3rd 2018 at 7:35:07 AM

[up] Cool.

And Kazuya, you ain't kidding. Hello The One and Leck.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#119995: Jun 3rd 2018 at 7:44:21 AM

[up]Uh I think stache was taking about young fiction villains for kids, thoose two are YA novel villains which since its for teenagers rather than kids tend to have much darker villains. President Snow, Voldemort, Bellatrix, saint Dane among others.

Also is Witch And Wizard any good? I know James Patterson is a pretty good author of crime and thriller novels but some of the YA novels he makes like Daniel X and Maximum Ride tend to not be any good.

edited 3rd Jun '18 7:46:17 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
JoeBlitz Since: Dec, 2016
#119996: Jun 3rd 2018 at 7:46:02 AM

[tup] Spencer.

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho ho."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#119999: Jun 3rd 2018 at 8:56:15 AM

So this is on the CM tree in The Powder Mage Trilogy

  • According to Borbador, most of the Adran cabal and most royal cabals in general are made of complete monsters. Bo eventually admits that he was overjoyed when Tamas slaughtered them.

From this series only fidel jes and Duke nikslaus have been approved.

edited 3rd Jun '18 8:58:28 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009

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